It's cases like this that make me support the death penalty...

by Elsewhere 149 Replies latest jw friends

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    Abaddon - didn't you tell me that New York had a 5x higher murder rate than London 100 years ago? When both civilizations were hanging people left and right? I think the murder rate is probably unrelated to the death penalty and more related to how conflicted a society is.

    However, in this particular case, the woman is guilty of a calculated, brutal crime. She planned it for months, as avishai says. While I agree that it may be possible to just cage her up and let her live, it simply isn't American to do so. It may currently be European - (you DID cage up that cannibal in Germany, right? Or did arbeit macht frei in that case? Sorry, bad joke.) But I guarantee that if your immigrants keep killing off your artists like that Muslim did in YOUR neck of the woods, the right wing over there will suggest a return to the old ways soon enough. And if the violence continues, they will be heard. Your current peacebility is a historical fluke. Enjoy it while it lasts.

    Besides, if lfe is sacrosanct, then abortion cannot be legal under any circumstances. Human life is human life, whether an embryo or third trimester or a ninety year old woman on a feeding tube. But if there are cases where an embryo or a fetus must be aborted due to higher considerations, like the life of the mother, then there are cases where living humans must be put to death for higher considerations, like vengeance or justice or whatever you want to call it.

    I prefer a bullet to the back of the head, burn the corpse, and scatter the ashes on the sea - and just a quick announcement on the Service Meeting that "So and so has been executed"...

    CZAR

  • Panda
    Panda

    UH HUMM ... China is not a feudal state. The death penalty there is, I believe, much more humane because it is acted on quickly. Child molesters and rapists get the death penalty in China. I think that's pretty bright of the Chinese not to allow even the slightest chance of continued abuse. Murderers in China don't always get the death penalty. Drug dealers and especially drug smugglers used to get an instant death when they were discovered. It's more lenient now. Recently in China some foreigners were caught stealing millions $$$ in diamonds. Now they are residents in CHinese jails for 15 years... I wouldn't want to be incarcerated there for 15 days. And believe it or not people don't just accept criminals back into society. After hard time in prison there will be a hard life after. I believe that it's this societal treatment that really curbs crime.

  • Robdar
    Robdar

    Abaddon, did we not agree that sometimes the death penalty is appropriate? You yourself said so. So why are you still yapping on at me? If you are trying to appear that you have thought about this subject more deeply than others, you are fooling nobody but yourself.

    I treat you with respect and you make jokes about my friends?

    In your group of friends there should be, on average, just as many people who kill, steal, or sexually abuse as in any socially comparable group of the same size. The same will be true with my friends.

    I wasn't joking. You do not know my friends and are not entitled to judge them as to what sort of persons they are. If the above can be said about your friends, perhaps you should be more careful of who you hang out with. Any of my friends that I discover stealing, killing or sexually abusing do not remain my friends. Period. I do not intentionally associate with people like that. I tend to discriminate. Perhaps you should too instead of making excuses for them.

    Nice to hear you support initiatives to target disadvantaged communities with high crime rates so as to reduce the level of disadvantage, increase opportunity, and thus reduce ALL sorts of crime, actually leading to LESS people dying.

    Yes I do do these things. What are you doing besides sitting on this forum being a smart ass? Since you care so much about the mentally ill and disadvantaged, what are you doing to help them out? Sitting here acting superior isn't doing much to help the world.

    Being a foreigner, you probably haven't given much thought to the American Constitution. It states that all American citizens are entitled to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. By killing Stinnett, Montgomery deprived her of her rights. Now Montgomery will be deprived of hers. It's the American way. Tough titties if you don't like it. Don't see how you have much say in it though since you are not an American.

    I support the death penalty. Obviously, you do too--albeit in very few cases. Since we have agreed that Montgomery is one of these cases, do me a favor and find somebody else on this thread to debate with.

    Love,

    Robyn

  • Robdar
    Robdar
    robyn, laugh at me, no problem, but if you really think the things i said are funny, you are in need of serious help. i suggest talking to a professional psychologist. they are better in explaining that there's no such thing like "good vs. bad", and they have more patience and experience with people who are not able to start thinking balanced after leaving a cult.

    Keep your self righteous opinions to yourself. You do not know me. I'm betting I've been out of that cult longer than you have been alive. Funny, in some of my psychology classes we disscussed acceptable v. unacceptable behavior. Good v. bad. If you think that psychologists don't belive in such things as good or bad behavior, it's obvious that you don't understand psychology. Why don't you take a few classes before you start spouting your suppositions? Ha, it's probably because you aren't old enough to have taken a university class. If you think that your thinking is balanced, you are, again, sadly mistaken. Why don't YOU see a psychiatrist to help you get over your desire to live in a perfect paradise earth? Still laughing at you Google. Robyn

  • Robdar
    Robdar
    I prefer a bullet to the back of the head, burn the corpse, and scatter the ashes on the sea - and just a quick announcement on the Service Meeting that "So and so has been executed"...

  • Thunder Rider
    Thunder Rider

    He can't help it Robdar. I mean the average wind speed over there is between 9 and 10 mph.

    Thats a pretty stiff breeze.

    He's just trying to be meteorologicaly compliant.

    Hey, I have an idea. We could send all of the human waste we have on death row over there. I'm sure they can find space in their bleeding liberal hearts to house our societies rejects, monsters and inhuman.

    Somehow I doubt they'll be open to the idea though.

    Thunder

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Robyn;

    Such a modest woman! Perfect friends!

    Any of my friends that I discover stealing, killing or sexually abusing do not remain my friends.

    Did I say anything to the contrary? For god's sake READ the posts. You have just made yourself look silly, not because you are silly, but because you are so god-damned arrogant you won't return me the courtesy I extend you of reading your posts and understanding them.

    I said because such things as those you mention are done IN SECRET (in normal society, which both you and I are members of regardless of any little conciets you have), you would only know you had a friend like that until AFTER they were discovered. Just as most people, you would be horrified and wonder how you ever could HAVE been friends with them.

    If you want to maintain none of your friends could ever do anything like that, then there's little point in talkin to you. You seem to think that being friend's with you excludes people fromthe rules of stattistics.

    Period. I do not intentionally associate with people like that. I tend to discriminate. Perhaps you should too instead of making excuses for them.

    That's just more of you being silly. I don't associate with murders thieves of sex offednders and you're an utter [edit] to say that.

    Nice to hear you support initiatives to target disadvantaged communities with high crime rates so as to reduce the level of disadvantage, increase opportunity, and thus reduce ALL sorts of crime, actually leading to LESS people dying.

    Yes I do do these things. What are you doing besides sitting on this forum being a smart ass? Since you care so much about the mentally ill and disadvantaged, what are you doing to help them out? Sitting here acting superior isn't doing much to help the world.

    So, you are sarcastic to me, and when you get it back (me pointing out your failure to respond to points that would make the situation) you get all upset. So, you don't like me treating you how you treated me.

    Being a foreigner, you probably haven't given much thought to the American Constitution. It states that all American citizens are entitled to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    Big mistake; "LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" are in the pre-amble of the declaration of Independence. I have travelled extensively in the USA, have American friends both here in Holland and in America (IRL friends), as well as loads of people I know online. I also love the poltical prose of the Declaration of Independence and many of the ideas in the Americn Constitution.

    By killing Stinnett, Montgomery deprived her of her rights.

    Now Montgomery will be deprived of hers.

    Doesn't actually say that in your Constitution. No where does it speak of the death penalty being the penalty for murder. Thus your linkage of LLatPoH to the death penalty is false. Please read it.

    It's the American way. Tough titties if you don't like it. Don't see how you have much say in it though since you are not an American.

    I support the death penalty. Obviously, you do too--albeit in very few cases. Since we have agreed that Montgomery is one of these cases,

    Nope, killing people is wrong. I just put that to one side to see if you could see beyond the end of your nose and actually think about a problem.

    Apparently not.

    do me a favor and find somebody else on this thread to debate with.
    Don't respond to me then. Of course, that would make you look even sillier than you have made yourself look thus far...
  • Sunspot
    Sunspot

    Again, I feel that the public emotion that is evoked in each murder case makes the difference. In the Peterson case---he coldy premeditated Laci's and Connor's deaths. I was *hoping* that he would get "life" so that he would wake up each day and realize what his deplorable actions got him. I felt that he deserved a long drawn-out and miserable life. I feel he knew exactly what he was doing and why.

    As horrendous as the Montgomery case *is*, I'd rather see her evaluated by professionals before her trial. She also knew what she was doing-but the circumstances were so much different. If the case may be-I'd much rather see her get the mental help she obviously needs, than be put to death.

    Peterson tried to "cover up" his crime (and actually did it quite well), but Montgomery "took" a baby she desperately wanted---and left an easy trail to follow. Somehow I see these two cases in a very different light. I'm not anti-death-penalty because I could list all the recent crimes and how I personally feel about what should happen to those who caused them---but it's the extenuating circumstances that make me feel the way I do in each instance.

    Annie

  • Mary
    Mary
    the thing that woman did was evil indeed. she's not, she's got a mental problem, and a huge one.

    Sorry, but that doesn't wash. This rotten, evil person PLANNED this all out over several months. She knew full well what she was doing. She's not "mental" in the fact that she couldn't help herself, she's a cunning, devious, rotten, slimeball who is evil, evil, evil. We had a case like this in Canada several years ago. Paul Bernardo and his evil wife Karla Homokah. They kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered several young girls, including Karla's own sister!!! This is not the cause of a "mental problem"....these two psychopaths are pure evil and they are the poster children as to why I wish Canada had the death penalty. Karla is due to get out of prison in a couple of years even though the Prison Psychologist has openly stated that this evil bitch will very likely kill again, because she shows no remorse for what she did. But what does she get instead? We, the taxpayers, get to foot the bill for her food, clothing, shelter, her f*cking university degree, her recreation, the cost of guarding her and all kinds of other crap. What's wrong with this picture??!!

    and people have to be protected from persons with huge mental problems who do evil deeds.

    That's right. A 50 cent bullet will do the trick just fine.

    Oh, and the guys that were the nazi's that actually DID that kind of stuff? Were they mentally ill?
    some obviously were. some were not, but had the same thinking robdar has, combined with too much power. and some were people like many on here, who thought it would be ok to kill "evil" people.

    Half of the men who were at the Wannssee Conference (to implement The Final Solution) had PhD's. They weren't mentally ill. They supported evil and became evil themselves. After being responsible for murdering 6,000,000 Jews amongst other groups, these guys did not deserve to live.

    What kind of punishment did they deserve?
    punishment does not help anyone. education probably would.

    Oh brother.........punishment doesn't help anyone? Well then shit, you may as well open all the prisons then!

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot

    I don't think that Montgomery should get off Scot-free, I think that she should be confined to a place for the criminally insane.

    I'm probably going to be dodging missles here (grin) because I can't verify this-but I saw on Court/Tv that they were saying that it costs about the same to feed-clothe-house and pay for further appeals and litigation for an inmate---than it does to put one to death! I found it surprising, and I heard this more than once while they were awaiting the Penalty phase of the Peterson trial.

    I have no idea how to research this, but I did hear it!

    Annie

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