I'm not a Buddhist, but...............PART 2

by Dansk 69 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Fleur

  The books I recommended will give you a wonderful insight and a good grounding. You'll immediately know when you've truly arrived at your path. Actually, you're already on it; you just have to clear away any obstructions. These can even come from the schools (or, rather, the teachers) themselves, which is why it's always good to trust your intuition. I've had to learn that for myself after the JW experience - but no experience is a waste. Don't ever feel bad about a past event, because that's exactly what it is - the past. One must live for the present. The present is all we have. The past is gone forever, the future doesn't exist. It's always about now!

  Ian,

  Thank you again, my friend, for taking the time to explain so thoroughly despite the stinking cold and the 'main illness' that you deal with daily. My thoughts are swimming so quickly, swirling around with your words, the words of another very wise friend here, and my own observations. I look forward to finding some quiet, some stillness in which to just contemplate and I that I will 'remember' the path I am meant to take. It's in me, I know it. It's been there all along, I was just too distracted to listen, to see it. It was clouded by all the JW-ness of my life from before I was born, as they got to work converting me as soon as I had ears inside my mother's womb. No wonder I lost my way.

  Much love to you and thank you again...this has been one of the most amazing exchanges I've ever been involved in on JWD or any community and I hope it will continue. Thank you, thank you.

  hugs,

  essie
• 

  Unfettered

  So far, the core Buddhist beliefs that were forged based on the direct experience of advanced meditation practitioners seem to run parrallel to my own experiences. I've only recently begun to really study the foundation beliefs of Buddhism and find it very intriguing. It's quite evident that just as with Christianity people have taken the core knowledge and embellished upon it in various ways with various theories, as well as advanced some forms of it with modern day meditation experience.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/82731/4.ashx
• 

  Fleur

  welcome, unfettered! I just read your other post at that link...fascinating. One excerpt for those who may have missed it:

  You and I are literally pieces of ?God? or the super conscious being that conceived all. There is a higher consciousness above each one of us from which we were divided and ?born? or ?conceived?. Above that higher consciousness entity is yet another higher consciousness entity from which it was conceived, and another, and another, and another etc until you get to the top. How far up it goes upward or how far removed from the macroscopic view we are I do not know. However, I do know that we as humans are very much like cells in the body of God. We may not be as powerful or as intelligent as that being, but we are loved none the less just as you love your fingers and toes etc.

  Quite a concept. More for me to ponder. Again, welcome and keep on posting!

  hugs

  essie
• 

  bem

  (((((Ian)))))and ((((((Essie))))))

  For the first time ever on all the threads I have read on this board I feel like I'm privy to a conversation I've almost been an eavesdropper to. Ian and Essie. and perhaps others that have read this thread are the only ones I expect that remark will make any sense to.

  always good to trust your intuition. I've had to learn that for myself after the JW experience - but no experience is a waste. Don't ever feel bad about a past event, because that's exactly what it is - the past. One must live for the present. The present is all we have. The past is gone forever, the future doesn't exist. It's always about now!

  Here's to your success.

  Ian

  Thanks Ian for taking time to answer, Essie thanks for taking time to ask.
• 

  Fleur

  glad that you've enjoyed the exchange as much as I have, Bem! :) (((((hugs))))

  Another question now...to Ian and to JamesThomas if he happens to be lurking about I hope you don't mind me bringing this into the discussion JT instead of doing so in email. If you'd rather reply off the board, that's cool.

  Okay here goes...In reading some of the things you've sent to me JT and in hearing Ian speak of the "Ramana-esque" or however he put it (forgive me, MS brain fog)...tell me this; is Advaita Vedanta directly dependant on Hinduism? Is there a place somewhere between where Buddhism and Ramana teachings meet?

  I'm sorry if this question makes no sense to others reading, but in researching the 'self-enquiry' or 'Who am I" links and all, this is a question that I came to.

  It seems to me if I'm understanding it right, that you do not have to be either Buddhist or Hindu to find the 'True Path" or to realize who you are, in truth, who we all are and see the ultimate reality. Is this a correct supposition, or am I mistaken? The way it feels most truthful to me is that the path I'm meant to follow isn't 'religious' it's just about remembering what I already knew, and lost track of.

  The concept that truly speaks to me is the thought (realisation?) that no being is more divine than any other. We all are, in our truest state, divine. We are all god, god is in all of us. Since contemplating this concept quietly, and just turning off my running thought processes, this makes me feel so peaceful. Something that I haven't felt before, from any belief, religion, or school of thought I have previously encountered. I can't explain it. It just is.

  Sorry if it seems like I'm speaking nonsense to observers...I hope I'm articulating myself clearly! If not...just ignore my ramblings!

  hugs to all

  essie
• 

  Unfettered

  Thank you for the welcome Master Fleur.

  Your comments makes absolutely perfect sense to me. I'll share a little bit more of my background that may correspond.

  I became a JW around the age of 13... that is I dedicated my life to Jehovah etc. I was very zealous. However, as my time in the org grew I constantly felt this lack of inner peace and nagging inside me even though I was doing everything the WT said I should do to be "happy" and "joyous". What was really going on was that I was "forcing" a mold onto me that WASN'T ME or my path. The happiest I have ever felt was the day I just decided not to go to any more meetings and moved away from the area of my congregation and began a true search for truth without someone telling me what the truth was. I cannot express the peace, happiness, and contentedness I felt every time I learned and do learn my own personal "new light". I realized that it has very much to do with PERSONAL inner exploration. That, even though it sounds cliche, most of the answers we seek do in fact truly lie within us. My parents even began to notice that I became a more loving person AFTER I LEFT the organization and started making deep INTERNAL changes rather than trying to force a mold that didn't fit over the external facade of my being.

  After I left I really began to grow and change for the positive. I also have another personal best friend on this board who knows me quite well and while I'm sure he doesn't think I'm an angel (I'm not), can testify that I've changed a lot for the better since leaving the organization.

  It's not that the organization was bad for me, in fact I grew quite a bit within it... I view religions sort of like nurseries for babies. When you get to a certain point of growth it's time to leave the nursery because you cannot grow anymore within it. Paul talked about becoming the type of person who doesn't feed off of milk but takes in solid food. Personally, I think the majority of people "stuck" in religions are milk feeders... myself included.

  So, the sense of peace you speak about I am very familiar with and I would concur and encourage you to seek your own path. I've been reading the Dhali Lamma recently and one of the things he stated was that in the Buddhism he practices they recognize that it is not necessary to be Buddhist to acheive "enlightenment". The word Buddhist and all the other words are just labels. There are more controlling religious forms of Buddhism and there are less controlling versions of it just like it Christianity. My advice would be to learn to meditate well. On a daily basis sink into yourself and listen to and FEEL your inner being or "heart" as people say. It will tell you what you should be doing each and every day and moment. Become present, and KNOW your path at every moment. Do not worry about the future and do not dwell on the past (doesn't sound like you do). Collect your mental energies back to you in this moment and know what you need to do at every present moment. Pay close attention to your heart. The heart is not just an expression. The physical area of the heart is in fact the main connection or junction to your higher self or subconscious higher body. It is also the source of motivation and your center of power. Strengthen both the mind and the heart. I write this not because I think you need it, but there may be others reading as well.
• 

  Unfettered

  p.s.

  What I really find fascinating is how much our perspective impacts our behavior. For example, you stated that "We are all god, god is in all of us. Since contemplating this concept quietly, and just turning off my running thought processes, this makes me feel so peaceful.".

  Not only does it affect your internal sense of equilibrium and peace, it also will directly impact your behavior externally toward others. For example, when I started to have experiences from other people's point of view during meditation I started to really understand more fully how truly connected we all are and how LITERAL the loving admonition to "do unto others as you would have done unto you" is... because when we are doing negative things to others we ARE in fact doing them to ourselves. It is only the illusion of our separateness that keeps us from realizing that or feeling it. You will find that the deeper you meditate and become introspective, the more you will begin to "feel" what other people "feel" which directly leads to the development of compassion and love as well as the inner peace you describe.
• 

  SheilaM

  ((((((((((((((Ian)))))))))))))))))
• 

  Fleur

  Unfettered, thank you again for your responses! I am reading it all and letting it sink in (and hoping too that Ian will find his way back here to comment when he feels up to it!)

  you said:

  You will find that the deeper you meditate and become introspective, the more you will begin to "feel" what other people "feel" which directly leads to the development of compassion and love as well as the inner peace you describe.

  You know, I have been interested for a long time in people's 'personality profiles' a'la Keirsey/Meyers-Briggs personality profiles in the Jung-ian fashion. By these descriptions I am "INFJ"; "Idealist/Counselor". I have always had the fortune/misfortune (laugh) of being very in tune with the feelings of others, the energy of others. I am very effected by the emotions of those around me and that is hard, sometimes I feel like I can't get away from it and it's overwhelming (think Beta-zoid if you've ever seen Star Trek the next generation). Many times in my life I have been overwhelmed with the dispair of others and felt unable, and unworthy to help them, or myself. I felt that not being able to save the world was a serious shortcoming. Not that I thought any human could do it, but I just always felt like no matter how much I did it was never enough.

  So becoming more compassionate with others hasn't been a struggle for me, it has been a struggle to become compassionate with myself. I think that is why I'm finding this path so freeing; realizing the deep, complex connection between all of us makes me want to be not only kinder to others but to give myself the kindness I have never been able to before. For the first time in my life I'm getting a glimpse of who I really am; what comes from me, and to me, and it is not only enough, it is comforting and it is peaceful.

  So it's incredible; learning that not only are no people more divine than any other; but that no one is any less divine than anyone else either that is really profound to me. We are all divine, divinity is in us all. Myself included! What a concept! No one is more or less worthy; it just IS that way. People just don't realize it.

  I'm just starting this journey but it feels so right. Before when I've tried to study any form of religion or schools of thought, it felt like piling more weight on my already loaded down body; like literally trying to drag these huge stones labled "God" and "Christ" and "Religion" and "Divinity" around until I was stuck, unable to move. Now it's like suddenly the anvil isn't round my neck anymore, and I have a chance to breathe, be still, and know. That is so powerful. It is so simple. But then the truest things always are the most simple aren't they?

  time for me to sleep and hopefully make more sense tomorrow. Hugs and goodnight (and my profound thanks) to Ian and unfettered and everyone who has contributed on this and the previous thread; it's gone in such a fascinating direction. I hope that others reading are finding it helpful too even if they're only just lurking *waving* hellooo, lurkers :)

  ~essie

  (((((((((Ian))))))))))) p.s. to you dearheart...I am glad that you are not afraid, but I want you to know that many people are hoping that you will be stuck with us on this plane of existance for a long long time...
• 

  Unfettered

  Fleur, you raise some interesting points from your own unique perspective. In order to fully express how I feel about them I'll supply another personal anecdote.

  I'm currently a martial arts instructor. We find that MOST new students to the martial arts have in common the fact that they are both too tense and lack body awareness. So, what happens is we have to start them doing certain motions and defensive and offensive movements slowly so that they don't injure either themselves or their partner. Usually tension results in them hurting themselves. So, one of the things we continuously spout are the words, "just relax and breath... relax... relax...". Now, when we say relax, relax, relax we don't literally mean that they should just crumple to the floor in a heap of total relaxation. What we mean is that they need to relax more than they currently are. In any form of exercise or sport it is necessary to develop agility of mind, and the ability to change ones state from relaxed to tense in a very controlled manner that is appropriate to any given situation. For example when blocking a powerful blow you might need to become tense for a moment, but you would not necessarily have to tense the whole body and definitely would not remain tense long after the blow has ended. To do so would make you static, unmoving, and an easy target. So, you can see hopefully the need to be able to change your state of being very quickly in a controlled manner. This same level of mental control is necessary in order to be successful at ANYTHING including life, relationships, love, business, etc...

  So, with the MAJORITY of students we say over and over relax, relax, relax... because MOST students are more tense than they need to be. However, in every class of about 30 students there's at least one or two students we have to encourage in the opposite direction... "stand up straighter, tighten your stomache, hold your ground, keep your eyes up" etc where we are encouraging them to be more forceful rather than cringing and collapsing backward into the fetal position on the floor. Those people are TOO relaxed.

  I think this exact type of situation applies in every aspect of life. I think that a very large group of human beings suffer from a lack of ability to truly empathize with others. They are generally mostly self-focussed with bouts of compassion here and there, and have not learned to practice compassion in every appropriate occasion. However, in every group of so many of those people you will encounter people who may be a little more at the opposite extreme of being TOO empathetic to the extent that they do not know how to turn off or shield themselves from other people's feelings. They are too open and lack the control to open and close themselves as necessary in any particular situation. Perhaps you may lean more in this direction. I don't know you so I can't really say what type of person you are. However, regardless of which type of person you or I or anyone else is, it is absolutely essential to learn how to "control" our ability to change our state of being at will. That is, to open ourselves when appropriate, and close ourselves when necessary as well for our own survival. This is the essence of the Yin Yang and Taoism... soft/hard, cold/hot, open/closed. There is a balance or equalibrium to attain. The practioner learns to become more pliable or "agile" with both their mind and their body so that when they need to be hard/closed they can be and when they should be soft/open they can do so very quickly. Agility is the ability to change oneself quickly. Obviously it's one I continue to pursue myself otherwise I would no longer need to incarnate on the earth in order to learn those lessons that will help me achieve that control and balance. Agility of focus is another important quality to train... however, perhaps more on that later.