I found a big ol' fat lie again in there!

by gumby 179 Replies latest watchtower bible

FlyingHighNow

Flyin......yer gittin a spankin
Gumby
*Stuffing two big, fat pillows down back of britches, placing hands on both hips* Oh yeah, Mister? Ya think?
bebu

Puhleeeeeeeeease! Bebu....were talking of a god inspired book god wants all mankind to have so they can have life by learning of their only savior... Jesus. Are we to think the almighty cannot control the hand of scribes? Would god have a book written for man, then let it be altered to confuse it's readers?

I guess it really doesn't take much to confuse some readers, eh, gumby? Looks to me like a few billion people, from all manner of backgrounds, have still managed to catch the main message of the Bible, in spite of the allowance of God toward scribes... who knows--if even because of it?
Recently I read a chapter from CS Lewis' book Reflections on the Psalms, called "Scripture". Some of its passages coincidentally addressed the complaint you are ~~railing on about~~ lodging above; that is, that what you think is reasonable to assume from God is not given (to your standards, anyway)... So here are a few excerpts.
The human qualities of the raw materials [in the Bible] show through. Naivete, error, contradiction, even (as in the cursing Psalms) wickedness are not removed. The total result is not "the Word of God" in the sense that every passage, in itself, gives impeccable science or history. It carries the Word of God; and we (under grace, with attention to tradition and to interpreters wiser than ourselves, and with the use of such intelligence and learning as we may have) receive that word from it not by using it as an encyclopedia or an encyclical but by steeping ourselves in its tone or temper and so learning its overall message.
To a human mind this working-up (in a sense imperfectly), this sublimation (incomplete) of human material, seems, no doubt, an untidy and leaky vehicle. We might have expected, we may think we should have preferred, an unrefracted light giving us ultimate truth in systematic form--something we could have tabulated and memorised and relied on like the multiplication table...
We may observe that the teaching of Our Lord Himself, in which there is no imperfection, is not given us in that cut-and-dried, fool-proof, systematic fashion we might have expected or desired. He wrote no book. We have only reported sayings, most of them uttered in answers to questions, shaped in some degree by their context. And when we have collected them all we cannot reduce them down to a system. He preaches but He does not lecture. He uses paradox, proverb, exaggeration, parable, irony; even (I mean no irreverence) the "wisecrack". He utters maxims which, like popular proverbs, if rigorously taken, may seem to contradict one another. His teaching therefore cannot be grasped by intellect alone, cannot be "got up" as if it were a "subject". If we try to do that with it, we shall find Him the most elusive of teachers. He hardly ever gave a straight answer to a straight question. He will not be, in the way we want, "pinned down". ...
Thus... we meet the same the same refusal of what we might have thought best for us... lt may be that what we should have liked would have been fatal to us if granted. It may be indispensable that Our Lord's teaching, by that elusiveness (to our systematizing intellect), should demand a response from the whole man, should make it so clear that there is no question of learning a subject but of steeping ourselves in a Personality... Perhaps the sort of works I should wish him to have written would have been useless... the value of the Old Testament may be dependent on what seems its imperfection. It may repel one use in order that we may be forced to use it another way--to find the Word in it...
...we are taught that the Incarnation itself proceeded "not by the conversion of the god-head into the flesh, but by taking of (the) manhood into God"; in it human life becomes the vehicle of Divine life. If the Scriptures proceed not by conversion of God's word into a literature but by taking up of a literature to be the vehicle of God's word, this is not anomalous.
...Because the lower nature, in being taken up and loaded with a new burden and advanced to a new privilege, remains, and is not annihilated, it will always be possible to ignore the up-grading and see nothing but the lower. Thus men can read the life of Our Lord (because it is a human life) as nothing but a human life. Many, perhaps most, modern philosophies read human life merely as an animal life... in the same way, Scripture can be read as merely human literature. No new discovery, no new method, will ever give a final victory to either interpretation. For what is required, on all these levels alike, is not merely knowledge but a certain insight; getting the focus right. Those who can see in each of these instances only the lower, the lower will always be plausible. One who contends that a poem is nothing but black marks on white paper would be unanswerable if he addressed an audience who couldn't read. Look at it through microscopes, analyse the printer's ink and paper, study it (in that way) as long as you like; you will never find something over and above all the products of anyalysi whereof you can say "This is a poem". Those who read, however, will continue to say the poem exists."
I find these thoughts above in the OT as well.
Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:6-11
Here, I think I should end with another Lewis quote: "But of course these conjectures as to why God does what He does are probably of no more value than my dog's idea of what I am up to when I sit and read."
bebu
gumby

Yes bebu, the enlightenment age has even bible believers in admittance in bible falability
I guess it really doesn't take much to confuse some readers, eh, gumby? Looks to me like a few billion people, from all manner of backgrounds, have still managed to catch the main message of the Bible, in spite of the allowance of God toward scribes... who knows--if even because of it?
Actually bebu, It's not just some readers who are confused....have you read JWD lately?...lol
Catching the main message of the bible is no feat bebu. When a race of people is insistent that their race is somehow special to god, hence writes a book that they are special with boastful claims of god dealing specifically with them.......and even has one of their own race come forth from god who will vindicate them as a race........it usually has a main theme that isn't to hard to figure out....especially when people who read it believe it came from god.
Millions of people took Viox and Celebrex too......until someone showed the product was flawed.
Gumby
Gumby
jeanniebeanz

You guys crack me up.
Jeannie
OldSoul

Gumby: until someone showed the product was flawed.

No offense intended, but I'm still waiting ...
Gumby: I notice you artfully skirted the request that you explain why that chronological detail matters.
No offense intended, but I'm still waiting ...
Gumby: I just raised a simple question regarding the basis for your accusation.
No offense intended, but I'm still waiting ...
Gumby: Your hypotheses couldn't even take a single simple question.
No offense intended, but I'm still waiting ... while you delight yourself with grand claims of having doused the Bible good with a heaping pile of Shiite (although where you got the heaping pile of adherents to Islam is still a mystery to me). Your claim has not stood the test of a single simple question. You have presented no direct response or substantiation.
Now you claim there are many more proofs and that this particular one was insignificant? Can I expect more dogmatically ranting claims that fall apart under brief scrutiny, or do you actually have something that can stump me? I am simply turning the critics eye back on your logic, that shouldn't prevent you from making your case if it can be made - it should only cause you to be certain of your stance.
It is an interesting proposition, you will attempt to prove the Bible false by presenting apparent contradictions while I question the basis for your opinion that they are contradictions at all. Since the Bible NEVER purports to relate every detail of any event or of anyone's life, you may find yourself quickly out of contradictions.
Whenever you are ready, you may begin.
Respectfully,
OldSoul
gumby

Your waaaaay behind OldSoul....you need to keep up.
I already admitted making a mistake in the Johns account scenario concerning Jesus time in the wilderness.....or didn't you read that? Apparently, everyone else except for about 3 people didn't see the answer either as ones kept trying to figure out the discrepency....so I guess you figure most on this board is as lame as I am.
That point was covered and we have moved on to the contradiction of Johns whereabouts while Andrew and Peter were chosen by Jesus. Was he in prison or not? Your the one who made the claim you could prove me a liar if you showed where John was locked up at least twice. You failed to prove it......but rather you continue on in your integrity to a book that's losing it's credibility as time goes on.
Gumby
FlyingHighNow

Your waaaaay behind OldSoul....you need to keep up.

Listen to you, Gumby gettin' all empathic there. Ya smarty pants. If you don't calm down, Mr. Green but not wearin' jeans, Satanus and I are gonna have to hijack your thread again.
Hehehe.
gumby

If you don't calm down, Mr. Green but not wearin' jeans, Satanus and I are gonna have to hijack your thread again.

Go for it flyin....it has a way of ressurectin the folks. Besides....Satanus is lonely.
Gumby
FlyingHighNow

Go for it flyin....it has a way of ressurectin the folks. Besides....Satanus is lonely.
Gumby
Oops, I meant, emphatic. Not empathic. Hahahaha. I'm such a card.
Rabbit

Y a w n . . .stretches out furry arms...waking.
W-what...Gumby's here ? Hey, is schisms talkin' shop or sumpin' ...?
sweepy wabbit

I found a big ol' fat lie again in there!

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