Is it legal for the WT to Disassociate someone?

by confusedjw 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Scully

  The April 1, 1986 Watchtower contains a statement that has a great deal of impact on the issue of disassociation by actions:

  Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses.

  In other words, any JW who does things that are not approved for JWs to practice - celebrating birthdays, holidays, voting, taking blood transfusions, joining an organization whose objective is not in harmony with JW beliefs - has in effect DAd themselves by their actions.

  Which is pretty interesting, considering that the WTS itself joined with the UN as a NGO just five years after this directive was published. Did they DA themselves by their actions too??

  Love, Scully
• 

  Gerard

  I think if they were to DA me, saying that by my actions I've DA's myself - I would sue.

  You, as a a free citizen, are entitled to "enroll" in any religious organization you please and are free to entitle them with power over you if you choose so.

  But please remember that the government courts do not interfere with religious affairs. All such religious-based law suits are dissmised faster than you can say quiditch - except those claiming physical injury or sexual abuse. Phychological issues do not apply either.
• 

  confusedjw

  UP/DOWN

  Damn (Hank) you're one of my favorite "reads" on this forum, I still can't read your posts without it being in Hank Hills voice- hehe.

  Dangit Dale (your new name, unless you prefer to be boomhower or Bill) I will do my best to type in a cadance that Hank would use and that Mr. Tom Landry would approve of.

  Gerard:

  What about Civil Courts? Isn't the WT obligated to follow their own rules? And if they break them and cause you phychological harm by convincing your kids you can't be communicated with it would seem there might be a crack to stick a wedge in.
• 

  tenrats

  just wait untill the elders have to deal with the same sex marriage rules up her in canada, i can see discrimination lawsuits on the hori(zion)...
• 

  onacruse

  The WTS is a friggin religion, and thereby protected under the Consitution of these United States to legally do whatever friggin stupid thing they want to do, short of child abuse and assassinating the President.

  It used to be that a JW could voluntarily DA, and be treated by other faithful JWs as an "ordinary" person. The DAing procedure was originally instituted to get around the military conscription laws, whereby a JW who joined the military would be DA'd ("so-and-so" has shown by their actions that they no longer desire to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses). The reason the WTS concocted this 'opt-out' was that they would otherwise have been charged with treason and outlawed.

  Then, in the late 70s, many 10s of 1000s of JWs took advantage of this 'opt-out' procedure, to avoid being involuntarily DFd for apostasy. The WTS saw this happening, and especially after RayF 'opted out' in the early 80s...well, then the WTS "re-defined" DAing as equivalent to being DF'd.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Since when is lack of love, malicious gossip, slander, contempt, jealousy, spiteful speech, haughtiness, self-righteousness, drunkeness, laziness, judging others, greediness, having no real faith, hate, un-justified shunning, etc. OK? Most Dub's are repeatedly guilty.

  How true.

  I am niether DA'd or DF'd, nor guilty of any 'scriptural reason' for them. We have 'faded', but not without notice. The local Pharrasees have made damn sure that if they could not DF me they would slander me. One sister recently concluded our 35 year freindship with me. She stated that until I returned to Jehovah she would have nothing to do with me. I asked her to tell me on what basis she judged me, other than congregational gossip? Of course I got no answer, because that was the whole basis for this unkindness! It is a powerful tool - and they use it!

  As to DA'ing. I think that the organization probably has all those bases covered well legally. Somewhere I read some detail on that it was hard to fight, and that they had the legal right to view Da'd ones anyway they wished. I think legal has a packet filled with intimidation that they send to those who threaten legal action in these matters. Seems like Bill Bowen has info on that on his site.

  I agree though - how can they justify treating one who just leaves as 'wicked, and unrepentant'? But remember who we are dealing with here!

  Just my opinion

  Jeff
• 

  Honesty

  I agree though - how can they justify treating one who just leaves as 'wicked, and unrepentant'? But remember who we are dealing with here!

  I never thought of myself as 'wicked and unrepentant' because I quit the club when I discovered their alliance with the UN. I'm sure the local dubs still don't know the real reason. They get fed with so much BS anything said will be viewed as coming from God so let those losers believe what they will.
• 

  Junction-Guy

  I too have wondered about the legalities of this too, I believe sometime in the future this may become a court case, Is there any other organization that uses this "dissasociation by action theory"? The WT is the only one I know of. It looks to me there is only 2 ways to leave any organization--be forcibly removed or ask to leave. How in the world is this a legal recognized concept? Any Lawyers reading this thread and can give some insight? This may eventually be a major case for the WT.

  Dave
• 

  rebel8

  You can try posting this question on freeadvice.com, a site with attorneys (if this is a question pertaining to US law).

  However, I really don't think there is any way in Hell this could ever be considered illegal nor actionable in court. I assume confusedjw is talking about the US. That being the case, the only issue here is that the JWs are bending or breaking their own rules, which they are more than entitled to do, legally. You didn't have a legal contract with the JWs to follow those rules.

  I think us Americans tend to think because something is morally wrong or unfair, it must be illegal. But guess again, not so.

  The only thing I can think of that would be considered illegal (in the US) is shunning, discrimination, or harassment, IF it occurred in the workplace AND it was because of your religion or religious beliefs. For example, if a JW employer created a hostile work environment [which has its own set of circumstances to qualify legally as a hostile work environment] for you just because you are not a JW, then that could be illegal.
• 

  PinTail

  Well, they have been doing it for quite sometime now, and I don't think there is any case law in the past where anyone won in that situation.