Is it legal for the WT to Disassociate someone?

by confusedjw 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Bluegrass Tom
    Bluegrass Tom

    This is what I know on this subject. It may prove helpful.

    The only way a "Disassociation" can be done is if the person does it. They write a letter to the Body of Elders simply stating that they no longer wish to be considered a JW. Thats it. An announcement is made at the next Service Meeting and it is over for ever. If the person wants to come back, the procedure is the same as for a disfellowshipped person. They attend meetings only at the KH for a period of time. No one can speak to them except an Elder who is trying to determine their status. After sitting in the back row for a period of time (6-12 months), the person writes a letter to the Body asking for reinstatement. The Body forms a Judicial Committee to meet with the person and discuss reinstatement. If the Committee feels that the person is repentant, and is okay to be admitted to the Congregation (living their life properly, etc) they reinstate the person. The reinstatement is announced at the next Service Meeting by the Chairman of the Judicial Committee.

    If and when the Body of Elders wants to have someone removed from membership in the Congregation due to repeated unrepentant wrongdoing they are "Disfellowshipped". The Body cannot Disassociate a person. They can only Disfellowship them.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Bluegrass Tom : Your statement is exactly how I remember the rules when I was involved in congo matters . However, it is now understood that if someone takes a blood transfusion unrepentantly then they are announced as d/a'd rather than d/fd. I have also read several posts by people who claimed that they were announced as d/a'd because they expressed opinions contrary to the Organisation - even though they did not want that to happen and did not give notice of d/a

  • kwintestal
    kwintestal

    Bluegrass Tom:

    The only way a "Disassociation" can be done is if the person does it. They write a letter to the Body of Elders simply stating that they no longer wish to be considered a JW. Thats it.

    These are notes from "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" pg. 101, the elders manual.

    If an individual takes a course contrary to the neutral
    position of the Christian congregation, the congregation
    is compelled to view him as one who has chosen to
    separate from us. (Isa. 2:4;John 15:17-19)
    A brief announcement should be made to notify the
    congregation that this individual, by his chosen course, no
    longer desires to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. (The
    Society should be notified using the S-77 and S-79 forms. )
    You can be disassociated by your actions.
    Kwin
  • euripides
    euripides
    I too have wondered about the legalities of this too, I believe sometime in the future this may become a court case, Is there any other organization that uses this "dissasociation by action theory"? The WT is the only one I know of. It looks to me there is only 2 ways to leave any organization--be forcibly removed or ask to leave. How in the world is this a legal recognized concept? Any Lawyers reading this thread and can give some insight? This may eventually be a major case for the WT.

    I am a lawyer and perhaps I can give you some insight.

    What you are describing in this disassociation by default thread is what is commonly understood in the law as a "constructive_________," as in a "constructive eviction," for example. A constructive eviction would be where you, the landlord, did not formally evict the tenant, but by allowing the property to become utterly uninhabitable, you have "constructively" evicted the tenant by your inaction. This permits the tenant to get out of his lease obligation and the law commonly recognizes that where an action/failure to act or series of actions are taken, though no formal process was observed, the person or entity has constructively acted/failed to act resulting in something consistent with as if they had gone the formal route.

    Thus, when WTS says, We have a clear policy on military involvement for our members, and a person violates that, then no formal adjudication would be required in order to establish that the person had "constructively" disassociated themselves. At bottom I suspect this is what's behind the Society's directive, to streamline the process for the body of elders. However, I imagine this would be restricted to public actions of which an affirmative participation would be required, such as joining the military, or, formerly, voting. Another example of this constructive behavior woould be as follows: I am no longer a member in good stading of the Bar of the State of Missouri if I fail to pay my Bar Dues. I didn't tell them I no longer wanted to be a member. They didn't ask me to leave. By my inaction I will no longer be considered in good standing. By failing to pay, I have constructively quit the group.

    Distinguish public acts, such as joining the military or accepting a blood transfusion from so-called private acts involving a supposed moral lapse followed by unrepentance (which as someone has already pointed out is really the only offense for which people are disfellowshiped). I agree this is a difficult line to find in many cases.

    As to the legality of this business, religious groups get a wide berth when it comes to the conduct of their membership. There is no third party liability when it comes to shunning, because 1) it's not criminal conduct and 2) all those doing it would say it was of their own volition anyway. What about a civil action, a tort? The closest action I can think of would be "intentional infliction of emotional distress," or even, unfortunately, wrongful death in a suicide case perhaps, but that would have to be committed by a person, not an entity. Additionally, there would have to be something shocking to the conscience about the conduct. The textbook example of this tort is a case where a man played a practical joke on a woman at a party and told her her husband had suffered a violent horrible death and she should rush home at once (this was 70 years or more ago). The poor woman suffered extreme emotional breakdown as she rushed home and became quite ill even after realizing it was a very sick practical joke. Another example is where a person maliciously killed all of a woman's beloved pets in front of her to deliberately distress her. Perhaps our sensibilities have dulled over time. At any rate, shunning is not considered to be shocking conduct by today's standards, I don't believe.

    No one joins the WT without their eyes wide open, in one sense. No one is coerced (under the legal definition of coercion). And, as I said, we would probably prefer to preserve the latitude afforded a religious body for their members to make choices for themselves when it comes to particular conduct. Obviously, the issue is a lot less clear (and more likely to run afoul of disastrous consequences) when it comes to something like refusing blood transfusions, and then dying, for God's sake. What you get for that is your picture on the Awake with a commendation from the Society (maybe). These human "sacrifices" to Twisted Reasoning are akin to the Christian Scientists who refuse ALL medical treatment. Yet, would we rather force these things on people, making martyrs left and right?

    The law will become involved when criminal conduct is involved, such as child molestation, failure to disclose to authorities, etc. Yet, as I say, there is nothing criminal about being a complete jerk and ignoring your fellow man or woman. Which, I have to say, is one of the saddest misuses of our limited time on this planet.

    Euripides

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    Dontchu seeeee, idn't it obvious?... That's because it's a government conspiraceeee!

    Dale (of the Saint Landry would approve class)

  • bavman
    bavman

    I had this discussion with the elders when i simply wanted to meet with others on my own and discuss the bible. They said even that was a reason to "da" someone. Basically, almost anything you do which is not acceptable to the wtbs and it becomes part of their knowledge is an excuse to "da" you. I actually had an elder call me and ask if i had joined another church yet because he wanted it to be easier to "da" me. What a freak eh?

    bavman

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Euripides,

    The law will become involved when criminal conduct is involved, such as child molestation, failure to disclose to authorities, etc

    Now that makes me wonder about a letter the Society sent back in the 80's about how to handle the law enforcers with supeana for congregation confidential files. Seems to me that they could be prosecuted for giving such instructions.

    Have you read the letter it might be on the net somewhere?

  • cyber-sista
    cyber-sista

    Could this not be considered a slanderous act causing great emotional pain? For instance I am not D'Ad and I am protecting this status in order to be able to communicate with my own JW sister (though it is pretty shallow communication these days.) If the Org D'Ad me she will no longer associate with me, thus causing us both great emotional pain. My elderly non-JW father is also grieved by all of this JW business, being that my nephews are Dfd and no longer can communicate with their mom. It would be a further stress my Father if my sister was instructed to no longer communicate with me. One stupid word from a bunch of local idiot elders and my whole family is torn apart. Somehow this seems illegal to me. If they ever tell me they are going to DA Me I am going to state that "I will then personally sue you for slander"--it may not work, but at least it will give them something to think about.

    any thoughts on this?

    cybs

  • euripides
    euripides
    Have you read the letter it might be on the net somewhere?

    http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/wt89.htm Euripides

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