EW:Hillary, you state, your not convinced I can grasp what logic is. Do the above posters seem to have a grasp and be in agreement?
Yes, to everyone except you.
Intelligent Design
by Delta20 234 Replies latest watchtower bible
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funkyderek
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ellderwho
FD:Yes, to everyone except you.
Either you havent read the definitions or you do not understand what the individual arrives at by the given definitions.
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funkyderek
Either you havent read the definitions or you do not understand what the individual arrives at by the given definitions.
No, I really think it's you. Any chance of that logical debate?
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Liberty II
Yes, we do grasp logic and agree. Our explainations were clear. Logic is a product of the human mind. It is a tool humans use to explore and understand the objective truths of the Universe to the best ability of each of our subjective minds. The boundry between the sane and insane or the rational and irrational is in the subjective mind's ability to understand some observations about objective reality and that these are universal. Sane humans can agree upon the majority of logical observations we make.
The Sun is hot, lava is hot, boiling water is hot and everyone in the world who is sane accepts the objective fact that this is reality. We will get burned if we touch these and those who refuse to believe it are burned despite their belief. Not even Asian mystics can submerge themselves in lava and then come out unharmed. Lava will kill you if you swim in it. It is illogical to believe otherwise. It does not matter that our minds are subjective. Real facts are real facts and we have used millions of years of evolutionary experiance to build a system which tests and solidifies an objective reality which is understandable to subjective undamaged minds.
I don't claim to have the definitive definition of Logic but I understand enough about our agreed upon universal concepts to observe and draw logical conclusions about the natural universe. There is no compelling evidence for the existance of God. Sane people have not yet presented any proof of their God to skeptical sane people. The subjective feeling is different for the sane believers and the sane nonbelievers but the rules of evidence (logic?) should apply to God (as they do to lava) if He wants to be a real part of our lives. We all feel the heat, see the glow, hear the steam hiss,are burned, and realize lava has mass and substance. Lava is a real natural objective reality, God does not exist in this realm of objective reality. God remains unseen, unheard, unfelt, and inactive. Even believers agree that God is supernatural, beyond nature, not of this world, and without substance.
If I believe in God I must accept that He is beyond all my physical senses and just accept that He is. I am no longer capable of this and think it foolish of Him to demand such reasonless faith since it goes against everything I have learned about His own creation, the physical Universe. Why not believe in the Great Pumpkin, Zeus,Odin, or The Invisible Pink Unicorn if these are beyond the rules of logic and reason? Are they all not equally unprovable and therefore equally worthy of our worship and belief as the Western concept of God? If we exemt God from the rules of evidence then shouldn't every imaginary thing my subjective mind can conjure be equally considered as "real"?
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zen nudist
Elderwho
What does collective agreement have to do with a logical outcome? In the US, would not the same logical outcome occur in China. Further what is stable or consistent about a "collective agreement"?
what is anything without collective agreement but personal opinion?