No Atheists in a Foxhole (page 2)

bigboi

Funkyderek:

The assumptions you made in your post are a prime example why I believe that atheism is in fact a belief system.

ONE....

bigboi

"it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia

rem

funkyderek,

Haha - my wife can attest to the fact that I'm particularly fond of "Jesus Fuck!" as my explative of choice as of late! :)

rem

"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so."
..........Bertrand Russell

Sorry hippikon, I've just got it! If I'm reading you right, you're saying that people become atheists when they're up to their necks in it and realise God isn't going to bail them out. I agree. Doesn't happen often enough, though!

--
Ubi dubium ibi libertas

Introspection

Hi Derek,

To me it seems unlike just about any other belief system in that it does not postulate the existence of a god. That's kind of the point. Not believing in gods is similar to not believing in fairies, just on a larger scale.

Actually, isn't atheism the belief that there is no God? It seems to me what you're describing is agnosticism. Although the dictionary even lists the two as synonyms, there is a difference. Agnostics just kind of says "don't know", not believing, to me does not absolutely negates the possibility, which appears to be the atheist view.

bigboi

Rem:

Okay guys, pardon moi. What is y'alls definition of belief system? Yeah, that was yet another attempt in vain at humor on my part.

Atheism isn't a belief system. There are many types of atheists who believe many different things. The only thing they have in common really is that they do not hold an active belief in any diety.

Is it just me or does that seem just a lil contradictory? Seriously though.

ONE....

bigboi

"it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia

funkyderek

Actually, isn't atheism the belief that there is no God? It seems to me what you're describing is agnosticism. Although the dictionary even lists the two as synonyms, there is a difference. Agnostics just kind of says "don't know", not believing, to me does not absolutely negates the possibility, which appears to be the atheist view.

No, atheism is the absence of belief in a god or gods; agnosticism is the absence of certainty in the matter. It is possible to be an agnostic atheist (which is what I consider myself). The two positions, (a) that there is definitely no god, (b)that there is no reason to believe in god, are sometimes defined as strong and weak atheism, respectively.

--
Ubi dubium ibi libertas

rem

Intro,

Atheism is having no active belief in god. This can include agnosticism. Think of it this way:

All Squares are Rectangles, but not all Rectangles are Squares. Just like all Agnostics are Atheists, but not all Atheists are Agnostics.

Agnosticism is just a form of "weak atheism" (Strong atheism being the belief that there is no god). The reason I can confidently say agnostics are atheists is because if someone does not know if there is a god, then he is not actively believing in any particular deity - thus he is an atheist (though, admittedly, a weak one).

So if someone asks me whether I'm an agnostic or an atheist, I can accurately say, "Both." (just saying "Yes" might be fun too!)

rem

"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so."
..........Bertrand Russell

Introspection

Thanks guys, I see what you mean. Of course, looking at the word's etymology the point becomes evident, though agnostic is more specific.

So what makes a strong atheist.. 5 meetings a week and many hours of preaching?

rem

Bigboi,

It is not a contradiction and I'll show you why. Like I said before - even though atheists may have one belief in common - it doesn't mean they all follow the same belief system. There are many types of people who happen to be atheists and they all believe different things and have different levels of disbelief in a deity.

It would be like saying that all people who disbelieve in Santa Claus belong to a belief system. It's not true. They may hold that disbelief in common, but that disbelief does not constitute a "belief system".

Heck, both Jews and Christians disbelieve in the actual existence of Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny - does that mean they share the same belief system?

rem

"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so."
..........Bertrand Russell

Introspection

So here's a question about agnosticism.. What if someone doesn't believe they know personally, but has nothing to say about whether it can be known? My copy of Websters defines agnostics as people who do not believe the human mind can know about the existence of God. So there's that difference between believing it can't be known, and I don't know nor do I know whether it can be known either ... (here's a thought: Agnosticism for Dummies (don't read too much into it, just a random flash of (hopefully) humor))

Now here's a more pointed questions for you guys, then. We might say what Hippi is pointing out is the change of belief in God due to personal life situation. My question is, is this desirable or more likely to be true, as it's a rather subjective experience? I mean it seems like if you're going to talk about holding such beliefs rationally it shouldn't be just a matter of personal feelings right? Because frankly when you boil it down doesn't that mean "I don't believe in God because I'm going to die"? Whether you're talking about using it to justify your belief in God or your belief that God does not exist, it's rather self-centered isn't it?

No Atheists in a Foxhole

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