Just for a moment imagine that you are talking to a person and he mentions to you that you have to baptize animals in order to be saved or that you have to believe in the trinity doctrine that is composed of God the Father, God the Son and God the Mother(mary) would you believe that these were some of the things early christians believed in. Would you be shocked to know that many dates were set for Jesus to rapture up the christians in the sky and nothing materalized? Many born-again christians argue you down tooth and nail stating that born-again christianity does not have skelatons in their closets like the Mormons and JW's but the truth of the matter born-again christianity has many, many embarassing skelatons. The list goes on and on but when you mention this to a pastor or minister they insist that they are not false prophets and that born-agains have made mistakes in date-suggesting. I ask them what is the difference when JW's or Mormons do the same thing? Born-agains will immediately switch the subject and say that they believe in Jesus and the Mormons and JW's do not. But the question is not whether they believe in Jesus but whether or not these things and beliefs were at one time held by many born-again christians in the early centuries. I am curious to what you posters have heard as an excuse made by born-again christians about some of their outrageous beliefs and predictions? I am sure many of you will immediately have some denial but if you are truthful with yourself as you insist JW's should do then you will have to admit born-again christianity is far from perfect. I used to wonder why do born-agains act soooooooooooo fanatical? I admire faith and conviction but you don't have to attack and insist on every body believing in Jesus in order to being saved as a basis for salvation. "Hell" is another subject that would annoy me with born-agains. Why do they put everyone in hell that doesn't agree with them? They seem to get a pleasure in thinking of a person burning for all eternity. What Jehovah and Jesus has in store for unrepentant wrongdoers only Jehovah and Jesus knows not people on earth today.
Have any of you examined early christian history and found many problems?
by booker-t 19 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
peacefulpete
different brand of the same poison.
-
frankiespeakin
Book,
I wouldn't put my trust in a book writen by those that had an agenda and has been altered like the bible has,, especially when it uses the mind control tactic that you must have faith or else your toast. The NT call for faith or else your gonna be destroyed is a clear sign of manipulation thru fear.
The politics that went on in the formation of our present bible is enough also enough for me to reject it as a guide to live by.
-
Double Edge
I have many morman friends, a couple of born-again friends and one JW friend. The born-agains are always in my face about religion and hell, the JW friend tries to play conversion mind-games and the mormans, for the most part, leave me alone. If I had to chose who to let go, and who to keep, I would probably say "buh-bye" to the born-agains.
btw, I also have friends with a "spiritual" bent who don't like to be categorized.....they're certainly the "keepers", and the ones who really get you to think.
-
JamesThomas
Put your hand in a fire and it hurts. It's nature's way of saying "don't do that"!
Read the Bible and you get so confused it hurts. It's nature's way of saying "don't do that"!
If you want to know the truth, then simply go deeper into the only pool of truth that you have available right now. Be extremely present in this moment.
Wiser words you will never find in the Bible, except for:
Be still, and know...
j -
El blanko
Be extremely present in this moment.
That is a very true statement.
I'm sure that Christianity if used correctly can provide the same degree of enlightenment.
Staying alert and awake are part of the scriptures
-
Qcmbr
I think early christianity had the same problems we have and that is as soon as the law givers (prophets / Jesus) are gone everyone squabbles about what means what and take everything out of context - voila multiple belief systems all vting for converts at each others expense. To me we all sign over some of our own personal beliefs when we identify with any group or faith (not just religious)and take on board beliefs that don't sit well with us. If we then find ourselves too far from our belief comfort zone we become ex-whatevers and move onto whatever belief system next appeals to us. Personally I think LDS rock but that's not most peoples boat - I've looked at various bits of early christian history and its certainly very different to the modern day born again's. When I used to do my door to door bit I used to get so much crap from BA's and I realised that they were as deluded as they thought I was. No one likes to admit they are wrong.
-
NeonMadman
Just for a moment imagine that you are talking to a person and he mentions to you that you have to baptize animals in order to be saved or that you have to believe in the trinity doctrine that is composed of God the Father, God the Son and God the Mother(mary) would you believe that these were some of the things early christians believed in.
People who claimed to be Christian have believed in all sorts of odd things over the years. So? That doesn't mean that Christianity is invalid, only that there are some loonies in the crowd, like in every other crowd. You could easily find Muslims, Buddhists and agnostics who have held some strange ideas. Does that invalidate the entire belief system?
Would you be shocked to know that many dates were set for Jesus to rapture up the christians in the sky and nothing materalized?
Nope. Like I said above.
Many born-again christians argue you down tooth and nail stating that born-again christianity does not have skelatons in their closets like the Mormons and JW's but the truth of the matter born-again christianity has many, many embarassing skelatons. The list goes on and on but when you mention this to a pastor or minister they insist that they are not false prophets and that born-agains have made mistakes in date-suggesting. I ask them what is the difference when JW's or Mormons do the same thing?
Unlike the JWs and Mormons, born-again Christians don't all belong to a big organization that claims to have special prophetic status. To be a born-again Christian is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. If an individual BAC claims to have received a revelation from God and the predicted event does not materialize, then that individual is indeed a false prophet. Again, that does not mean that Christianity itself is invalid. You seem to be trying to apply the organizational mentality of the JWs to all Christians. I don't feel a need to defend what every Christian (or professed Christian) throughout history has done. Many who have claimed to be Christians were in fact not, as is demonstrated by their actions. Jesus said that the wheat and the weeds would grow together until the end of the age, and that it would be difficult to tell them apart.
Born-agains will immediately switch the subject and say that they believe in Jesus and the Mormons and JW's do not. But the question is not whether they believe in Jesus but whether or not these things and beliefs were at one time held by many born-again christians in the early centuries.
Why is that of concern, unless your motive is simpy to disparage Christianity in general? The failure of individuals does not mean that Christianity as a lifestyle doesn't work. G.K. Chesterton said (and I paraphrase), " It's not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting; it's that it has been found difficult and left untried." Jesus said that many would claim to have worked miracles in His name, but that he would profess never to have known them. Again, weeds among the wheat.
I am curious to what you posters have heard as an excuse made by born-again christians about some of their outrageous beliefs and predictions? I am sure many of you will immediately have some denial but if you are truthful with yourself as you insist JW's should do then you will have to admit born-again christianity is far from perfect.
Why should any BAC need to make excuses? As I've elaborated above, the presence of loonies, or even of truly evil people, who claimed the name of Christian over the centuries merely validates exactly what Jesus said would happen. Christianity in the sense of a lifestyle based upon a relationship with Jesus Christ and following of His teachings is perfect, but not all who claimed the name have exemplified what Christinity should be. It seems odd to me that many of the same people who will make arguments against Christianity of the sort you propose will also say that we shouldn't condemn all Muslims on the basis of the actions of a few terrorists. (I'm not saying that you say that, but the two do seem to go together in a lot of people's minds)
I used to wonder why do born-agains act soooooooooooo fanatical?
Some do, some don't. Some Muslims, Buddhists, and atheists are also fanatical. There are lots of reasonable Christians out there.
I admire faith and conviction but you don't have to attack and insist on every body believing in Jesus in order to being saved as a basis for salvation.
It was Jesus who insisted upon that. He said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except by me." (John 14:6). You are free to disagree with Him, of course, but you really shouldn't be too surprised if His followers agree with His teachings. As for "attacking," I think your post certainly qualifies as a much more direct attack on Christianity than any Christian saying that Jesus is the only way. Is attacking all right for you and not for us? But that seems to be the cultural climate today. If you think that you are right and that someone else is wrong, you are perceived as attacking them. And the only belief system that it's politically correct to attack is Christianity.
"Hell" is another subject that would annoy me with born-agains. Why do they put everyone in hell that doesn't agree with them? They seem to get a pleasure in thinking of a person burning for all eternity. What Jehovah and Jesus has in store for unrepentant wrongdoers only Jehovah and Jesus knows not people on earth today.
It will probably surprise you to learn that not all BAC's believe that Hell involves flames. The essence of Hell is separation from God for all eternity. What form that will take is open to wide disagreement and speculation, even among BAC's. Fortunately, we do not have an organization dictating doctrine to us, and are free to form our own conclusions.
-
Narkissos
Barney Muldoon,
Care to answer the refutation of this hoax on http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/86253/1.ashx?
Or repetition is proof, WT style?
-
Kenneson
Bookert,
In regards to the Trinity, I've read of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. And I've read of Mary the mother of God (God-bearer), but never of God the mother. Care to tell us which early Christians believed that.