My wife is joining, how do I keep her from leaving me?

by Check_Your_Premises 45 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet

    This isnt exactly related but I just have to say something to Honesty and AlmostAtheist and that is a big warm thank you. For what you may be thinking?

    Well as a born and bred JW I have always felt deep down that my opinions are wrong, that my advice is wrong that basically what I think isn't worth the brain cell its imprinted on. So guys, to have two people say they agree with something I have said from my heart touches me immensely and makes me feel - well valid, worth something. I just wanted to say how much that meant and sorry I didnt mean to go all mushy and emotional on you.

    (Actually this does relate indirectly to CWP's dilemma. I am an example of what happens when a young person is raised as a witness, but decides to leave and how little confidence we have in ourselves, how lost and unimportant we feel. Don't let your kids turn out like me! Teach them to BELIEVE in themselves and not in an false organisation.)

    warm hugs all round because I feel teary and happy at the same time!

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist
    So guys, to have two people say they agree with something I have said from my heart touches me immensely and makes me feel - well valid, worth something.

    Since leaving the dubs, I've found that it's much more comfortable to agree with reasonable, well-thought out statements of truth than to have to simply tow whatever the current party line is. I jump on the chance now!

    And if you're ever in doubt, ask CYP what you're worth. I'm sure your views mean alot to him.

    Dave

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet

    Thanks Dave! Remind me to buy you a drink next time I holiday in the states mate!

  • Check_Your_Premises
    Check_Your_Premises

    I told her this morning before I left for work that I was sorry I lost my temper. I told her I was afraid to speak because I was afraid my temper would again get the best of me. But I did want her to understand why I was so upset. I think I have found a good description of what this is for a non-jw husband to have his wife join. I thought I would share it with you, in the hopes that it helps others in my situation understand their pain.

    "I feel like you are leaving me to marry another man. I didn't have all the answers for you, and I never pretended I did. I know I don't so I never could pretend such a thing. I guess that is what you wanted, a man with all the answers. Sometimes it is best to act like you have all the answers because it makes everyone feel better that someone knows what is going on. So I think you feel you have found that. Well they don't have all the answers, they just say they do. No man does. Someday you will find out that they don't. "

    "So will someone be giving you away?"

  • unbeliever
    unbeliever

    I remember jgnat posted something interesting.....you want the status of not interested but not opposed or something like that since you want to stay married. Tell your wife to practice the religion all she wants but you do not want your children to be raised in the religion. Always stress to her that you respect her right to practice her religion but it's not what you want for yourself or the children. Crooklyn has came out with articles about respecting the headship of an unbelieving mate. The thing is that it's not always applied by the elders or the JW spouse. I don't have the WT CD or I would look it up for you. Maybe somebody else can do that.

    Remember always keep your cool and be loving. I think that is where my dad made his mistake. He was very vocal about his oposition....hence where his spiritual endangerment came in. Remember, not interested/not opposed and it's not what you want for yourself and your children. You are not going to change your mind and leave it at that.....don't leave it open for discussion with the elders. That's the only way I know you can stay married.

  • loveis
    loveis

    With regard to children and religious instruction, etc., this QFR from 1960 was still referred to as being current in 1996 (a reference was made to it in a study article in the 10-15-1996 Watchtower.)

    ***

    w60 12/1 pp. 735-736 Questions from Readers ***

    Questions

    from Readers

    ?

    What Scriptural principles guide in the training of children in homes where one parent is a dedicated Christian witness of Jehovah and the other is not??Based on many questions received.

    According to the Scriptures the husband and father is the head of the home. If he is a dedicated Christian witness of Jehovah it is his responsibility to see that his family receives spiritual as well as material provisions. (1 Tim. 5:8) Even if his wife is an unbeliever, he must see to it that his children receive proper Christian education and training both at home and at the Kingdom Hall, and he should do all that he can to help his wife see the truth of God?s Word. At the same time he ought to grant his wife freedom to worship God her own way, and she may at times insist on taking the children to her place of worship. Granting her freedom of worship may even mean letting her have a Christmas tree in one room of the house during that season, although the believing husband would not let other rooms of the house or its outside be decorated. By thus extending freedom of worship to his wife he shows that he loves her as he loves himself.?Eph. 5:28, 29.

    Likewise, the unbelieving father, since he is the head of the house, may dictate the religion of the children. However, in view of the fact that the mother is responsible for the conduct of the children in the absence of the father, she must inculcate in them right principles and may witness to them as opportunity affords. In cases where the husband is severely opposed, she may not be able to take them in the service or to the meetings, if he forbids it. But she can continue by various means to teach the children Bible principles and truths. If the children ask questions, she has the right to answer them.

    Suppose such a father should make an issue of the flag salute. Since every Christian is instructed by God?s Word to make a defense of his belief and course of action, a dedicated mother has the right to make such a defense and to give an explanation, not only to her children but also to her husband, so that all in the family understand her faithfulness to Christian principles. (1 Pet. 3:15) Since the father in this case is opposed to the mother?s having the children take the Scriptural position with regard to flag saluting, then, aside from explaining to the children what the Scriptures have to say on the matter, the mother would have no right to insist that the children comply with the Scriptural principle in this respect, because the husband, as head of the house, requires the children to participate in the ceremony. The children would have to consider their father?s wishes, and the mother may not interfere by sending a note to the teachers asking that her children be excused when the ceremony is conducted in school. However, if after the children learn of their mother?s position and see that it is Scriptural and hence the will of God, and if out of their own conscience they take their stand in school and elsewhere and refuse to participate in such ceremonies, then, of course, such action is not due to insistence on the mother?s part but is of the children?s own accord, and the husband could not find fault with her. After all, it is the child?s responsibility to take his own stand according to his conscience, and if his father punishes him for conscientiously refraining from engaging in patriotic ceremonies, then the child is suffering for righteousness? sake.?1 Pet. 2:19, 20.

    In harmony with the counsel found at 1 Peter 3:1-6, the dedicated Christian wife of an unbeliever will be exemplary in conduct and will show deep respect for her husband and teach the same to their children. However, she will not fail to participate actively in true worship, and by her faithful conduct and the things about which she speaks she will exercise a powerful influence on both her husband and her children, so that they too may be saved.?1 Cor. 7:14, 16.

    In the case of the child who shows appreciation for the Bible truths learned from the believing parent, Christian principles also govern the course he must take. The unbeliever may still insist that the child attend church, and the minor child, properly subject to his parent, would be obliged to do so; but at church he could not conscientiously participate in the idolatrous ceremonies, and when discussion periods give him opportunity to do so, he will defend the Word of his heavenly Father. When required by an unbelieving parent to do something that would directly violate the law of Jehovah God, the child would be guided by the counsel in the Bible: "We must obey God as ruler rather than men." "He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me." "Children, be obedient to your parents in union with the Lord, for this is righteous."?Acts 5:29; Matt. 10:37; Eph. 6:1.

    Thus in all situations dedicated members of divided households show proper evaluation of their circumstances. They recognize that their first responsibility is to God, and, consistent with this, they comply with the God-given instructions on recognition of headship within the household and show the love and deep respect that are due.

  • unbeliever
    unbeliever

    Thank you loveis.

    franklin J gave you some very good advice about the elders. They are nothing more than uneducated window washers who have no business being in the middle of a marriage. Don't look to them to have your back or back you up.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    CYP, Sorry she made the wrong choice. How awful for you.

    It sounds like you are dealing with this as well as can be expected. As others have said, there is little value in asking the Elders to sign a paper saying something is ok. Even if they would (doubtful), it's not a contract, so they can (and probably will) break their word at any time.

    However, what you could try is to make a list of the things you want to do with your family, find bona fide WTS literature that says it's ok, and meet with your wife and the Elders to discuss. Show them the articles and ask if doing any of those things would constitute spiritual endangerment or whatever they call it. Make sure to ask your wife, in the presence of the Elders, if any of those things would violate her conscience. (Examples: telling your wife to vote, telling your wife to cook holiday dinner, hanging up holiday decorations in your home, etc. These are things allowed, according to the literature.)

    Take notes as to what they say (or heh, heh, conceal a voice-activated audiotape on yourself). Then if they break their word, at least your wife would know the Elders were breaking their word.

    If your wife ever does meet w/the Elders to claim spiritual endangerment, you would have documentation of the discussion. You could also try to request a meeting w/the Elders to dispute the spiritual endangerment charge.

  • lonelysheep
    lonelysheep

    When I was studying, I was told the only spirtitual endangerment from my husband would be if he tried to prevent me from attending meetings.

    *Edited to add: I was told by several people this would be reason to divorce him!!!!

    I hope you'll keep your kids out of that environment and give them the normal life she will be forbidden to do..like birthdays and holidays.

    She can't leave you as you know. For a while, I was frustrated with my husband for not attending the kh w/me and not wanting to become jw. The so called friends from the hall constantly shoved down my throat, "win him without a word" verse, which kept me thinking if I was a good jw wife, he'd change and become jw, too. Well, it wasn't happening. He refused to have anything to do with any religion. I felt like I had to make a choice between the WT and him. I chose him. We spend a lot more time together now.

    I was happy that he let me take the kids w/me to the hall, but that was unwise on his part since he didn't know the extent of jw's like I do. Although they're small, I wish I'd never exposed them to it...hopefully their curiousity won't get to them later on in life.

    As I said before, celebrate everything. It was easier for me to keep on with them since I never had the pressure, or joy of having celebrations for our kids or cooking a holiday dinner.

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee
    They are nothing more than uneducated window washers who have no business being in the middle of a marriage. Don't look to them to have your back or back you up.

    Even though this is true this is not how they are presented or how most of the lemmings in the org look at them.

    I have ALOT of experience in this, my dad was shut out of his family (me, my two sisters, and brother) for the last 20 years. I just told him recently I was planning my exit from the JWs.

    Here is the thing, after the divorce about 8 years ago, my dad went through some therapy regarding all this. When I broke the news to him that I was going to leave the JW religion, he said, "You know, by the time your mom became a Witness, the JWs had already probably seen a thousand "unbelieving" husbands just like me. So by the time I came along and your mom decided to be a JW, they had me sliced, diced, packed and ready for shipping before I even knew what hit me. The knew exactly how I was gonna react and headed me off at every attempt."

    I believe with all my heart that if your wife swallowed the Kool-Aid (as so many on this site like to say) there is pretty much nothing you can do. The mistake my dad made was actually trying to be a JW for a few years - but his conscience just wouldn't allow it in the end and he exited before getting baptized. But by the time he left we kids had already been so indoctrinated into the Org that there was no turning back for us. Our whole social structure was now entirely found in the Kingdom Hall.

    1. MAKE SURE your kids have options outside the Kingdom Hall for friends, association, etc. My mom constantly used guilt as a motivator for us and used it well. The elders and congregation members will continue to use this method to guilt your kids into being a JW. (See the earlier thread regarding the Bible Story book and it's primary message: "Obey or die".) YOU NEED to offset that guilt, and encourage them to find good friends outside the Org.
    2. If your local JW congregation is like any other congregation there is probably LOTS of dirty laundry. If and when you can get some of that information, innocently bring it up and make your wife think about whether this is something the "true religion" should be having in it. Maybe point out that your kids aren't having these kinds of problems with their non-Witness friends.
    3. YOU should become intimately familiar with JW teachings. Since they have such a profound way of glossing over their history and making their hypocrisies disappear into thin air, you would do well to print out and have that documentation around to try and help your wife think for herself. The Society condemns themselves with their own literature, so it is a good idea to keep the stuff around. This JWD site is really good, there are some educated people that can help you to find out which information is legit and which stuff is overblown conspiracy theory hype by the old school wacked out apostates.
    4. I think you have learned that you cannot win her over with confrontation. Keep all the information you learn about the JWs and save it for those times (and they will come) where she is more vulnerable or open to what you have to say. It is most likely a waiting game now ...

    I know every situation with "divided households" is unique, so some of these points may not apply. But this is a situation dearly close to my heart and I know if some of these techniques were applied in my family early there is a chance things might have turned out differently.

    Feel free to PM me if you like . I am willing to help.

    All the best,

    -ithinkisee

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit