Okay, here's my question that maybe one of the obvious scholars (and I'm not being sarcastic here) posting to this thread can answer for me. Anytime a discussion of the Trinity comes up I always want to ask, people that don't buy the Trinty don't seem to have any trouble with the Holy Spirit side of it, I mean the Holy Spirit being God's active force (if I remember my JW upbringing correctly). I alwasy said, well, there's 2/3's of the trinity, the Holy Spirit is part of God, goes out from God, but is given its own personality, it can be grieved, sinned against, etc. Why is it so hard to imagine Jesus being the same? Now I'm not saying I totally buy the Trinity, but I don't see where some can just discount it so easily out of hand. The old thing about Jesus praying to himself etc. was explained nicely to me by a Jesuit in that when Jesus was in human form he was human, obviously distinct from God, separated by his humanness. Like I say, I'm not sure really what to make of the nature of God, if there is even one, but to just totally discount the Trinity out of hand seems kind of hasty.
The Trinity!
by ((Omega)) 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Undecided
Why use the bible for proof of anything? It is a bunch of man made folklore that so many use to try to figure out life's mysteries. No one agrees on what it really means, not even what it says. If it was God's real message to man, he really failed to make it work.
Ken P.
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Deputy Dog
JW Ben
I would like to see a debate between a JW view of the trinity (me) and one other person who belives in the trinity.
I don't think you get it. There are no trinitarian who believe in the "JW view of the trinity"
Just answer me this, who raised Jesus from the dead?
D Dog
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JosephMalik
Omega,
Jesus is our God. The Supreme Being is our God also and yet Jesus is not our Supreme Being. Furthermore Jesus can be worshipped under NT rules without contradicting OT texts. Such worship is authorized and permitted by this Supreme Being we call God in our day.
Failure to understand proper use for the title God and context that is often ignored are the major reasons why Trinitarianism exists.
Anyone in authority especially those that receive such authority from God can be called God or God?s without contradiction. Thus non-human beings such as the Word that became flesh and human beings called such does not make more than one God or person that makes up the Supreme Being. Thus honor given to such a God does not mean that we worship more than One God or Supreme Being. A capital G does not make such a God the Supreme Being. Examples are Moses, the Kings of Israel and Heads of Government here on earth good or bad even to this day. We should understand this difference and context not punctuation should let us know this but most miss this distinction. God as a title for the Supreme Being and God as a title for someone appointed by Him does not make a Supreme Being with multiple personalities or consisting or many Persons based on this title God. Simply stated just because Jesus is called our God in Scripture, does not mean that this Jesus is our Supreme Being and ultimately the one we must please to gain eternal life. You will find more information on this in Beyond Trinitarianism. http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/
Joseph
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JW Ben
To the two people that had the courage to reply to me
1) John 1:2 in the Interliner does not contradict JW theology.
2) the trinity doctrin that is mostly ecplained by JWs is the "orthodox" view according the the way priest teach it in the chatholoc and eastern orthodox churches.
The priest do not know what their own catoholic teacxhing is according to their encyclopedia. They will just say it is a mystery and can not give any other answer than that. That is my personal experience by talking to priests and from what ex catholics have told me.
The view of some "born again" people that I have spoken too addmit that Jesus is a distinct person and seperate to the father, but at the same time God.
These are the two main teachings I have come accross with a few variations to it.
JW teaching in brief
Jehovah is the name of the Father. He alone has excisted from time indefinate.
Jesus is the first of all of Gods creations. He has exsited fromtimes long ago before the creation of heaven and earth and the other angels.
The spirit is Gods force.
I can and will debate those with anyone wanting to take me on.
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Deputy Dog
JW Ben
Who raised Jesus from the dead?
D Dog
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Ianone
Wrong JW ben, the Kingdom Interlinear (KIT) does contradict the NWT rendering of JOhn 1:2, and many other places. Remember ben, when you are reading KIT( you read the actual Greek) not the NWTized english beside it. the Kingdom Interlinear Greek has no "a" before God. Only the english transliteration beside it inserts the "a" to get "a god".
Hillarity, JW bible number 1, contradicts JW bible number 2
here are some other contradictions between the two JW bibles
Jn. 8: 58 footnote 1985 ed KIT Blue (01)
Jn. 8: 58 footnote 1969 ed KIT Purple (02)
John 8:24 (03 &04)
Greek says "I AM" the sacred name, and the English JW slant changes it to "I am he"
"In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!"
The KIT correctly shows under the Greek:
"Answered Thomas and he said to him The Lord of me and the God of me!"
John 20:28 (06)
Colossians 2;9 (08)
The watchtower is a joke. lol
It's own bible disproves itself.
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JW Ben
Ianone,
You evidently know nothing about translating from Greek into English nor context. None of the texts that you mention contradict JW view of trinity.
Grammatically the "a" has to be inserted in John 1:1. The NWT is gramatically correct. Other translations do not put in the "a" in, on theological grounds, not according to correct grammar.
Wrong JW ben, the Kingdom Interlinear (KIT) does contradict the NWT rendering of JOhn 1:2, and many other places. Remember ben, when you are reading KIT( you read the actual Greek) not the NWTized english beside it. the Kingdom Interlinear Greek has no "a" before God. Only the english transliteration beside it inserts the "a" to get "a god".
Hillarity, JW bible number 1, contradicts JW bible number 2
here are some other contradictions between the two JW bibles
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Ianone
No it doesnt.
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Tyre
To DeputyDog and JW Ben
WHO Raise Jesus from The Dead?
God Himself
Act 2:32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.Jesus Himself
Joh 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.Joh 2:20
Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?Joh 2:21
But he spake of the temple of his body.Holy Spirit
Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
