by Slick Willie 22 Replies latest jw friends
valis,
It makes me sick that Congress is politicizing something that clearly is none of their business.
I could not agree more. Soon the Government of the US and the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witness will be interchangable. They seem to share very similar ideals and employ an equally suspect methodology.
HS
Cruzenheart asked: I do wonder what was in the dose of "morphine" given to my mom right before she died. The nurse said "it's very powerful, she only needs a little" and indeed it looked like about half a teaspoon of a clear liquid.
A friend of mine just lost his elderly mother a few weeks ago. She was suffering alot at the end, so they gave her morphine and some pill. I think the combination shuts down your body very quickly and you're allowed to slip peacefully away.
Remember "Soylent Green"?
eeewwwwwwwwww!!!!!!
That being said, I have no intention of dying slowly and in agony. I agree with you, Valis, Nina, Mary, et al. Having volunteered at the palliative care unit with dying cancer patients, let me assure you, it`s not how I intend to go.
t
i thought medically assisted suicide was illegal.
Pwned... it's a pretty thin line. Intentionally 'causing' death is illegal; however, it is legal to remove life-sustaining support, and even to 'hasten' death as a side-effect of pain-management.
Maybe someone with more experience in the field can confirm, but that's my understanding.
(I posted this to the other thread...seems the debate is being carried over here...some comments refer to posts in the other thread)
Greetings!
This situation seems to raise all kinds of issues and now its even stirring debate about our fundamental system of checks and balances.
I just want to add my own thoughts and comments but first I want to address two posters on this thread:
Bikerchiic/Kate, there is a lot of truth in what you say! One cannot just simply deny the effects of one's previous choices in life. If the anorexia nervosa/bullemia nervosa is factual then it is certainly very ironic that she may ultimately die from starvation. But also let's remember that many, if not most, who are truly suffering from these and other impulse-control/body perceptive and eating disorders aren't acting under the full control of a healthy brain/psyche. In short, few engage in these forms of eating disorders purposely, because they WANT to. They are very much victims of what is whatever is wrong with them which causes them to engage in these unhealthy activities. Thus, we should be careful to consider that even if Terry engaged in such negative and harmful behaviours, these particular problems (unlike say drug use in most cases) are linked and tied to a corresponding medical/psychological problem. It would not be fair than to say that Terry's present condition is the harvest of what she has sewed.
NewLight2: YOU ARE JUST PLAIN RIDICULOUS! I am just going to address a few things that you have (LIKE A MORON) said in this thread and a few other points:
1: Husband (schiavo) wants to destroy evidence that he was abusive or "strangled his wife" which brought her into her current condition.
That's just stupid in every way.
First, although it appears that you have followed the news on this situation, apparently you did not bother to research the FACTS. Terry collapsed in 1990 and was immediately taken to the hospital. IF THERE WAS ANY EVIDENCE OF STRANGULATION/SUFFOCATON it would have been immediately apparent to the physicians treating her. Bruises, strangulation, burst blood vessels in the eyes, any of these are evidence of asphyxia or strangulation. These would have been present in 1990 and the husband would have been arrested in charged.
Second, there would be NO medical evidence today, almost 15 years later, that would indicate any type of strangulation/suffocation. Terry has received MRIs/CAT scans which do not support any such cause for her vegetative condition. In fact, the cause is apparently the fault of medical treatment that she received after her initial collapse, which resulted in jury findings of malpractice claims in favour of her family, her estate and her husband in excess of $2 million dollars.
(As an aside, if there were any evidence to be found, it would be produced through an Autopsy. Since even a Cremation order that the husband sought would be superceded by the autopsy order required by the DA in this case, it would be extremely stupid for the husband to allow her to die, if the result is that such evidence would be more likely to be produced.)
2. The husband is afraid that evidence of "his spousal abuse" will come out.
That is stupid for two reasons. First, Terry has the care of medical personnel and has already received numerous physical evaluations from countless doctor's not ONE of them has alleged finding ANY EVIDENCE of spousal abuse. Secondly, it is stupid because the punishment for being "found guilty" of spousal abuse is nothing compared to the punishment for being found "guilty of her death". If there was evidence to be found of spousal abuse THAT LED TO HER PRESENT CONDITION AND SHE SUBSEQUENTLY DIES he would be guilty not just of spouse abuse but of homicide. Without a doubt he has been legally advised and knows this. Thus again his interest would be to keep her alive as long as possible.
Oh and by the way, with regard to your latest posts regarding the petitions filed (the 60-day stay petition) evidently you do not fully comprehend the simple fact that what is being requested is a stay to "investigate" whether "abuse has occurred" and is NOT ITSELF ANY PROOF of such allegations. Anybody with half a brain can see that this petiton filed last Friday, AFTER THE SUPREME COURT CLEARED THE WAY FOR HER TUBE TO BE REMOVED, is nothing more than a political action, designed to give the courts/fed/congress more time to interfere. If there were any such proof or real concern, these would have been addressed a long long time ago.
(Also with regard to the "news report" which read more like the National Enquirer where Terry supposedly upon hearing the news that the tube would be removed, suddenly lurched up and said: "IIIIIIIIIIII....WWWAAAAAAAA........": I will finish the sentence for you, it is: "IIIIIII WWWWAAAAAANNNTTTT TTTTOOOOO DDDDIIIIIIIIIEEEE!!!!.)
3. The Husband wants to benefit from her death.
Interestingly, I believe the husband has already demonstrated that this is not about MONEY when he declined not one but TWO offers, the first for $10 million dollars and the other for $1 million dollars, JUST TO RELEASE HIS GUARDIANSHIP. If he was only interested in money and in MOVING ON WITH HIS LIFE, he would have released his guardianship a long time ago as Terry's family had already expressed their intention to FILE FOR LEGAL DIVORCE ON TERRY'S BEHALF and to continue treatment/rehabilitiation - both of which would have allowed him to walk away with a clean conscience and start his life anew. (Though I am not sure that the family would not have tried to sue him for alimony.)
In addition to this, the husband long ago volunteered to give up any remainder of her trust fund, to which he is legally entitled to receive upon her death.to charity.
4. The Husband just wants to move on with his life and forget about Terry.
Nonsense, pure nonsense. Yes he started a family, has another relationship, I am not sure that anyone would blame him for that. But if he just wanted to walk away from Terry, he could have relinquished his guardianship a long long time ago. He received over $1 million in a malpractice suit that was HIS AWARD, not part of the trust fund. He could have walked away at that point. No one goes through all of this hell for 15 years for such petty reasons as have been put forth by some.
From all of the above it seems clear to me that the Husband's only concern and conflict has been his love for his wife, which he knew to be so beautiful and full of life and which he evidently feels extremely strongly that would not wish to live the way she has been "living" for the past 15 years.
I have no doubt that this was a terrible and heart-wrenching decision to make or that watching his wife slowly die will be a very sad ordeal.
Having said that, it is easy to be sympathetic with the parents. They believe and evidently, other doctors have also concluded, that Terry is not in a persistent vegistative state - as found by the court and the court's medical examination. They have said that they want to take care of her and be with her for all of her life. Such is natural from a parent. But there are two problems with this: 1) her parents are not young. They could and perhaps are likely to die before Terry would if she were maintained. Likewise, even her siblings could die before her. Thus the burden and responsibility would fall to others (family members and non-family members?). So their parental argument only goes so far before they are enlisting and speaking on behalf of others. More importantly, is that they seem to be sustituting their own feelings and desires for those of Terry.
In short they are being extremely selfish. True, they may be concerned for Terry but they also are being selfish. Period. I truly do not know of any person, no matter how much I love, that I would want to submit them to a lifetime of "life" like that. Even with constant rehabilitation and therapy (and short of some wild medical advancement/discovery (using human cloning), Terry is never going to have a quality of life that is even appreciably better than what she has now. I think that is is hard for many people to understand that they would want to do that to their daughter. But everyone of course feels for them. This is a tragedy for them and nothng that any person wants a loved one to go through.
Finally, I would like to turn to the whole government getting involved with this (which even the Parents have voiced out against.) Obvisously, the basic issues of euthanasia, right-to-die and personal medical decision and patient privacy are all raised.
It sickens me that after working itself throughout the court system for 10 years, that now we have congressmen and senators boarding planes, trains and automobiles in order to make it back to D.C. to vote on legislation, designed deliberately to interfere with and supercede the judicial system. I am not even talking about the expense to tax payers over this mess. There is a serious cause for concern about the general slide down the slippery slope of the government interfering with personal rights and freedoms in this country over the past 5 years since 911. If Congress is allowed to intervene in this situation it will be a very bad precedent for the future.
That's pretty much all I have to say about this except for one more reminder that you have all heard already. As an attorney that does estate planning, I just want to remind all of you to get your estate plan documents in order: will, trust, advance medical directive/power of attorney for medical care and power of attorney for property.
-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
I know this is offensive to many, but I support Terry Schiavo's husband. I believe in quality - not quantity of life. I believe in death with dignity.
To be in a permanent vegitative state, to have to have a catheter and whatever for excrement, to have someone change your monthly pads, to have someone bathe you daily, comb your hair brush your teeth, and you have no conscious knowledge of this, is not dignified nor is there any quality. To maintain her life is selfish. Period.
Yes! Stephen Hawkins has had a remarkable life even though he how is complete incapacitated by ALS - Lou Gerigs disease. With his influence, fame, and dollars, he has been able to live comfortabley and be more than a brain contained in an immobile body.
Yes! Christopher Reed had an awesome life, even though he still required an "iron lung" and daily nursing care. Because of his fame and dollars, he was able to help medical science make giant leaps in nerve regeration and technical/medical equipment. He even made giant leaps in recovery that was never expected, due to his tenacity!
Now, I'm not saying that fame and money are necessary for a quality of life when severely disabled, but a loving family and quality care are.
However, when it becomes untenable, it's time to consider the alternatives.
I think everyone should butt out and allow her guardian, her husband, to do what the courts have decided is his right.
I know I would NEVER want to live like she is. A hundred years ago this wouldn't be an issue, someone invented feeding tubes... she can't eat, can't swallow, her body can't function. She has no quality of life. Allow her dignity. I wish the media would leave her alone.
This is so sad....
Terri is not in a coma. She is not in a PVS (Persistent Vegatative State). She is not being kept alive by any artificial life support. She has never had a PET scan or MRI to prove that there is no higher brain function. These doctors hired by Michael Schiavo have no way of knowing she is in a PVS. But 17 doctors have come to the conclusion that Terri is NOT in a PVS, and she should be receiving therapy.
At the time Terri suffered her brain damage she was contemplating divorce from Michael Schiavo, who she was afraid of, and who it is intimated in court transcripts may have abused her physically and emotionally. Would you want such a spouse to make a life and death decision for you?
Michael Schiavo is the ONLY member of Terri's family who wants her to die. Every member of the Schindler family believes that Terri has some degree of awareness, and that with therapy she can regain functions such as swallowing and possible even talking. Why has Michael Schiavo refused to allow therapy for Terri for 12 years? Why did he suddenly 'remember' that Terri did not want to live in an incapacitated state seven years after she suffered the brain damage? Perhaps the trust fund was depleted at this point or perhaps there were questionable expenses? Why has Michael Schiavo had Terri's trust fund records sealed by court order from public view?
I lived in the Pinellas County, Florida area from 1990-1998. I read many articles about this in the St.Petersburg Times (a Pulitzer prize winning newspaper) and there were many unanswered questions regarding Michael Schiavo's behavior, and I had come to the belief at that time that Michael Schiavo most likely a very evil man.
Sadly, the Schindler's side of the story is not well known. Anyone with a sincere interest in Terri's welfare should go to www.terrisfight.org. There you can read court transcripts from doctors who actually examined Terri, friends of Terri who knew of the relationship problems she had with Michael, as well as several of her former caregivers who testify that they believe she has cognitive function.
I hate the fact that this has become a political hot potato, but I'm worry even more that our courts could make a decision to terminate a human life in a case where there does not exist clear brain death, or an irreversible and declining state of health that would eventually lead to death in and of itself.
But 17 doctors have come to the conclusion that Terri is NOT in a PVS, and she should be receiving therapy.
From http://respectfulofotters.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_respectfulofotters_archive.html#111120735448873570
None of the 17 affidavits are by providers who examined Schiavo. Only one of the 17 providers claims to have reviewed her medical records. The remaining 16 providers apparently based their statements primarily on six snippets of videotape, totalling 4 minutes and 20 seconds, which have been posted on Schiavo's parents' website and broadcast repeatedly on the news. ...
The six snippets of video were selected from 4 1/2 hours of tape. As do most people with PVS, Schiavo emits random behaviors and noises. If a person gives enough commands or makes enough interaction attempts over the course of several hours, by sheer coincidence some of Schiavo's random behaviors will appear to coincide with their commands.
