Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?

by Little Bo Peep 763 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  AlanF

  Alleymom said to scholar pretendus:

  : Do you mean that all the foreign language translations of the NWT are translations from the English NWT into the receptor language rather than from Hebrew and Greek into the receptor language?

  That is essentially correct. The Watchtower Society decided that the English NWT was so accurate that it was virtually a replacement for the original texts, and issued an edict that all non-English versions would be translated from the English one. The only partial exception to this that I'm aware of is the French version, which does deviate from the English in certain critical ways. The French one is more faithful to the originals so far as I can tell.

  : If so, these are NOT real translations of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

  Correct.

  : Good grief! I am horrified.

  As well you should be. It's this attitude of reverence for the translator, Fred Franz, and for other WTS leaders, that leads to the kind of scholastic dishonesty that is the main characteristic of Watchtower publications.

  AlanF
• 

  Leolaia

  I see, I didn't know that the French edition was an exception. I recalled Narkissos describing issues involved in its translation in the past.
• 

  Narkissos

  The original (1974) French NWT was a relative exception, as the translator did learn the Biblical languages, but from his own admission he had "his hands tied" (les mains liées) by the options of the English NWT.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/86744/1.ashx
• 

  Alleymom

  :: Do you mean that all the foreign language translations of the NWT are translations from the English NWT into the receptor language rather than from Hebrew and Greek into the receptor language?

  :That is essentially correct. The Watchtower Society decided that the English NWT was so accurate that it was virtually a replacement for the original texts, and issued an edict that all non-English versions would be translated from the English one.

  <speechless!>

  Ok, here's a question. Has the NWT been translated into modern Hebrew (Ivrit) and modern Greek? If so, can you tell me how the hybrid name "Jehovah" has been rendered in modern Hebrew and Greek?

  Thanks,
  Marjorie
• 

  stevenyc

  Alleymon,

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Translation has a good brief definition, including the following:

  Since the original New World Translation was published in 1950, it has undergone minor revisions on a number of occasions, most recently in 1984. It is a goal to make the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures accessible to as many people as possible. To that end, the English translation has served as a basis for translations of the NWT into several other languages and editions, including a pocket-sized edition, a standard edition with cross-references, a reference edition with footnotes and appendix material, a four-volume large-print edition for the visually impaired. It is also available in Grade Two English Braille, and on audiocassettes and CDs (in MP3 format

  As of 2004, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures has been released in 48 different languages around the globe. Of those, 35 are complete editions: Afrikaans, Arabic language, Cebuano, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, English Braille, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Iloko, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Chinese, Chinese (Simplified), Korean, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese, Portuguese Braille, Sesotho, Slovakian, Spanish, Swahili, Swedish, Tagalog, Tsonga, Tswana, Xhosa, Yoruba, and Zulu.

  steve
• 

  EvilForce

  Um I hate to point this out Steve.....but that must be a "postate" site since on that same link you can find that Jerusalem fell in 586.... obviously, incorrect info, there shall dismiss it out of hand....
  
  LOL
• 

  Alleymom

  Hillary ---

  Marjorie: If someone tells me that his religious organization is the only true Christian body on earth today, and that I am not a true Christian because I have not accepted that Jesus returned in 1914 (and I have therefore not associated myself with the WTS), all I need to show is that 607 is wrong (and I have done so on many occasions).
  
  
  Hillary: ....And that is the crux of the matter. Scholar has openly admitted to Marjorie that he does not view her as a true Christian because she is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses. This is of course part of a cultist theology that depends on isolating its adherents and making them feel 'special' and superior to those around them.

  What's ironic is that I'm apparently scheduled to be annihilated for believing in a date which can be established solely through WTS literature. As I showed in the KISS thread, using ONLY WTS literature and starting with the WTS's date of 539 BCE, one arrives at 586/7 BCE for the destruction of Jerusalem.

  Neil won't answer me with a direct "yes" or "no" when I ask him if he accepts the chronological data in the 1/1/65 WT as true.

  I, on the other hand, DO accept what the 1/1/65 WT says about the names and regnal lengths of the neo-Babylonian kings.

  Using only WT literature and counting backwards from 539 BCE, I can show that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/7 BCE.

  So having used nothing but WT literature, with no appeal to higher critics or wiley 'poztates or secular scholars, I am nevertheless condemned for not believing in the WT's OTHER date of 607.

  Scholar has also admitted, very courageously I might add given its implications, that the WTS has stepped beyond its authority by shunning those who question the 607BCE date.

  So if someone is already one of Jehovah's Witnesses, he/she shouldn't be penalized for questioning the 607BCE date, according to Neil. But if someone is not one of the Witnesses, that person IS penalized for not accepting the 607 date.

  Scholar is living in a thick jungle of cognitive dissonance, one from which all of us who have been Jehovah's Witnesses once lived, and from which many of us painfully hacked our way out into the daylight. Some of us found life outside the jungle hard to bear after believing for many years that we owned the world, only to emerge from that world and discover that we were not special at all, and that we were just another person among billions, struggling to find some sort of meaning in our rapid journey from the womb to the tomb.

  The disappointment and bitterness is evident on this Board among many of its posters as we rail at the WTS and bicker with each other, but this is not suprising given what we have come from. Many of us expected to be living on 'Paradise earth' by now, but find ourselves weary, broken and defeated by the shattered fairy tale that we once lived in.

  It takes real courage to face a life without certainty, but it is a life that should be lived with a sense of honesty for it to have any meaning. Perhaps one day Neil will take the first courageous steps out of the jungle and learn to stand on his own intellectual feet without the aid of a self-serving agenda manufactured by a group of less well informed men, a hundred and fifty years ago.

  Very well said, Hillary.
  
  I applaud all of you who have had the courage to do that very thing. It took real guts and a lot of heart to step away from something which had been your life. The disappointment you so poignantly describe must have been fierce.

  I admire all of you and wish you the very best.

  Marjorie
• 

  EvilForce

  Thanks Alleymom....your work is appreciated!!!!
• 

  OldSoul

  stevenyc,

  How could you post that poztate crap? It is plainly deceptive as regards the translators intent. That site stated that one version of the NWT is "a standard edition with cross-references." The NWT doesn't have cross-references, it has stake-references!
• 

  scholar

  Alleymom

  Marjorie

  The brilliant NWT is transalted into Modern Greek and it is correct to say that the English NWT serves as a Master text for all other languages. This however does not exclude the possibility that consideration of the original languages were considered as part of the transaltion process as I am not privy to the Translation Procedures.

  The New World Translation is the only multi-lingual translation ever made and at this time is approaching nearly 50 languages with far more to come, truly an astonishing achievement. No doubt, it will be available also in Modern Hebrew.

  scholar JW