A Poem for Jehovah's Witnesses and Apostates (page 4)

CeriseRose

So you are the only one who doesn't know if they have the truth and therefore are in a labelled classification all by yourself.

Got it.

I'd probably be giving that a different label...

GetBusyLiving

Slim just wants to feel safe. Slim I just suggest you stop posting questions or broad statements if you don't want to hear the answer. I don't think you are a bad guy, just very scared.

GBL

CeriseRose

You know, I understand about feeling safe, and wanting to protect yourself. Put in that perspective, I can understand how scared he might be that his paradigm is wrong or faulty.

I just have a problem with people dropping baggage on everyone else to protect themselves. I make it a point not to tar every JW in the entire organization with the actions of the few that hurt me. It continues to hurt me that I'm maligned and misunderstood by those few, in the process of being shunned. It hurts me even more when I'm continued to be pigeonholed by those who have no understanding of me as a person and individual on a forum such as this.

It hurts me when I have read the stories of many on these forums who have been through way more crap than I have and haven't spent their time maligning and going on witch hunts for JWs that caused them harm and they are also lumped into this description because someone else feels the need to do it. That someone sees their own perspective without *seeming* to have an iota of empathy for others and their position, carelessly boxing them in a slot and making them out to be something he doesn't know for sure if they are.

So for me, I'll stop. I think making labels and judging people is wrong. I don't think anyone here should be allowed to judge others. However, all that being said, I'll leave my comment at that and hope that slim can figure out what real life is all about before he causes hurt to others.

My 2 cents.

Pole

slim,

Pole - there is a difference between apathy and a belief that someone else is wrong. Most people don't care/have not even heard about Jehovah's Witnesses.

That's right. I should have said 99% of people who have heard about the witnesses and their basic beliefs. Still a very wide application of the concept of "apostate" in the first version you've provided.

2. Apostates who believe that Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the truth

3. Ordinary people who fail to believe that Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth

Very confusing. Lots of loaded language here. "Fail to believe" means what? They are too stupid to understand Jehovah will kill them and their children?

As for your whole categorisation - I don't think you can judge people like that and mark out a separate category for yourself only and perhaps for a select few. Again - it all seems to be part of an attention-seeking game, but maybe I'm mistaken - (See? I can only judge you by what you post here). Anyway, you are making a huge, fundamental (and IMO erroneous) assumption. You impose an arbitrary "worldview" in the following concept:

The Truth

Please tell me exactly what you mean by "the Truth"? The truth about what? What is so true about JWs that is not true about any other religious group? The truth about WT leaders changing the world when they get transformed into heavenly kings? You see, if you keep avoiding being specific - we are not getting anywhere. I won't pretend I understand what you mean when you say "the truth", because I don't.

I could say the JWs have "the truth" about pets because there was a nice Awake article on them recently. And thus I could reason that not all their beliefs are false. Which means they "might have the "Truth""?

So please give me a very short list of those JW truths. This will make me content.

Pole

Valis

2. Apostates who believe that Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the truth
3. Ordinary people who fail to believe that Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth

again more drivel...What if Apostates don't believe any religion has "the truth" (Whatever that is BTW)? Some of us Apostates don't need religion and have no need to ascribe the term "truth" to it. Where is your category for that? You keep using "truth" in regards what the JWs teach like it was a set of irrefutable facts one should either believe in, not believe in or fail to believe in. All those billions of people on the planet just "failing" to believe must have it wrong, or perhaps the JWs just haven't gotten round to converting them yet..

seattleniceguy

slimboyfat,

I think that you are overstating the non-belief of ex-JWs and (especially) understating the non-belief of the average citizen.

For example, you say that average citizens merely "fail to believe" that JWs have the truth, whereas ex-JWs go out of their way to "believe that JWs do not have the truth." But I think that this comes down to degrees of informedness.

To clarify, consider your position on some religon that you don't really know much about. Let's just pick Hare Krishnas, for example. Apologies if you do know a lot about this group, but just imagine that you don't for the moment. If you were asked whether they had the truth, you would probably answer in the negative, but it might be qualified with a "Well, I don't know too much about them, but..."

Now consider a person who has left the Hare Krishnas, a Krishna apostate, if you will. Our Krishna apostate likewise believes the Krishnas don't have the truth, but he is much better informed regarding exactly why. Since being informed rightly makes a person more confident in their viewpoints, the apostate Krishna is more passionate. This would especially be the case if he believed the religion was not neutrally "not true," but actually harmful.

So it is with the Witnesses. Most of the people on this board agree - as do most of the people on the planet - that the JWs do not have the truth. The only difference is that the people on this board are, on average, much better informed, so they rightly hold their viewpoint with more confidence. If some become strident in their views, that is unfortunate, since it is that very thing that most people dislike about groups such as the Witnesses. But that is not a trait common to all people who have left the organization.

So I think it should be clear that these boxes you are continually putting people in are meaningless. They do not aid in discussion here. I think you would enjoy yourself a lot more - and get more out of the discussions - if you would abandon your efforts to classify people and instead just discuss things.

I hope you're enjoying this discussion. I am.

SNG

jaffacake

What does the Bible mean by apostasy? Scriptures please?

Valis

What does the Bible mean by apostasy? Scriptures please?

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/33274/684788/post.ashx#684788

A Poem for Jehovah's Witnesses and Apostates

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