by philo 34 Replies latest jw friends
Englishman, As things stand, however, most of us are very guarded of our identities, which is unhealthy imo: we all want to be known. By posing here, many run a risk of being 'outed', its a small risk but a risk no less, and it's obviously worth taking.
Concerted self-outing could work if the risks were considered acceptable to individuals. In other words, if there is a will there is a way. But is there a will? I wonder. Judging by responses so far I tend to doubt it.
philo
All this would accomplish is to make the Society';s job easier. The paranoid in me first thought ... well that irrelevant.
There are what maybe 15 regular participants here in Canada, maybe another ...being generous.. say 50 lurkers. We all post our names and addresses as you suggest. The Society can look up the addresses to determine what congregation territory we are in. They send a letter to said congregation to investigate. Keep in mind this is only 75 people. There are 1100 congregations in Canada.
Here is how they would respond to any media attention.
It was brought to our attention that these people were visiting web sites that were potentially dangerous to their spirituality. We asked local elders who know these inidividuals to shepherd them and help them through any spiritual crisis. It was during these meetings that some of these individuals expressed their desire to leave teh religion or confessed to wrongdoings that conflict with their standards of our faith. If anyone was disfellowshipped it was for being unrepentant for these wrongdoings and not due to their internet use. Decisions to disfellowship are done at the local level and the WatchTower Society of Canada or of New york do not dictate such decisions.
Or they will simply ignore it and/or issue a one liner. The WBTS does excommunicate members for unrepentant wrongdoing. Such was the case here.
Mean while, all 75 of us are disfellowshipped. Anyone known as being our friends will be investigated, we lose all contact with remaining JW family members.
The numbers work the same for the States or anywhere else. What is 1,000 people versus the 950,000. What makes you think the Society doesn't routinely handle this many disfellowshippings. At any given time there is usually at least one Committee formed in every congregation around the world.
Our numbers would have to be a lot larger...I mean A LOT before your idea could even have a chance.
At this point being anonymous for many is the smart wiser move.
My opinions only.
Kismet
Thanks for your comments. And you are correct that there would have to be many more people willing to come out for it to have a chance.
What about all the people who presently neither lurk nor post, who are simply miserable in the organisation? Also, this could be a long term project, a way to connect to the silent dissent among JWs and even other cults. It could work in conjunction with, and inform individuals and the media of the conditions within the WT organisation.
For a given area, for example, it could publish numbers of JWs who:
1) disagree on specific policies
2) would like to leave their religion but can't because they will be shunned
3) are prepared to out themselves at some point
As the numbers climb (if they do) interest would develop, and this would encourage more subscribers. Of course low numbers like yours could even discourage them to do so, but at least they would have information about the extent of dissent in their area to help them decide.
How often do we hear of people sending their letter of disassociation and regretting it, wishing they had played it differently, or of people who wished they had sent a letter? People leave hoping their friends will follow, sometimes this happens, most times it does not. For all these people information is at a minimum.
To know that in your vicinity there are a number of brothers who are likely to be sympathetic to your disagreements could help many make the leap as individuals, never mind collective outing.
I am offering variuations on the 'outing' project, I know, but what is at the heart of it practically, as I now envisage it, is providing verified information to JWs and the media.
philo
Edit
My full name is Jeffrey A. Thomas. I live in Carnation, WA. I think the WTS got a pretty good idea of where I stood on March 18, 1989 when my wife and I sent them a thirty page letter explaining why we were no longer witnesses. A copy went to our local congregation and had our name and address on it. (We have since moved.)
Special message to anybody who thinks he's going to send the elders after me: I will happily and peacefully engage in any upbuilding spiritual discussion. I will even be happy to discuss our disagreements, so long as it is done in a spirit of agreeing to disagree. I have not committed any act of immorality, and I have not left the Christian faith. We are members in good standing at our church, one of the largest non-denominational churches in the state of Washington. However if you wish to threaten me, be advised; I have a shotgun, a shovel and nine acres of vacant land.
I think it is useful if *some* people who can and are confident put out their real names / identity but it isn't for everyone. I have had people contact me after making comments on Amazon (re: Franz's books) and I have been able to help them and / or make some new friends & acquaintances that way which I doubt I would have if I wasn't seen to be a *real* person.
Unfortunately, the down-side is that there are a lot of what can only be described as morons among JWs who believe that they can do whatever they want 'with God on their side'. I regularly receive quite negative email, some of it bordering on hate mail, because of this site for instance but I would imaging that if a large number were doing it they would be less inclined to do so.
I do believe that more real names that people put out increases the chance that someone will approach these for support / help / advice in leaving.
HAHAHa well the reason I don't post my number and Address is not because I'm afraid of WTS, shoot they know where I live. It's because I'm afraid Slip and Yeru would show up at my door HAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!
Ven
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong, is to let him have his own way."---Josh Billings
I like the idea. I posted an essay which mentions Stanley Milgram's experiments in Norm's "The Good Old Days" thread:
Milgram found that the authority’s power had to be somehow undermined before there was widespread disobedience, as when the experimenter was not physically present, when his orders came over the telephone, or when his orders were challenged by another authority. Most importantly, subjects became disobedient in large numbers only when others rebelled, dissented, or argued with the experimenter. When a subject witnessed another subject defying or arguing with the experimenter, thirty-six out of forty also rebelled, demonstrating that peer rebellion was the most effective experimental variation in undercutting authority.
Ginny
There's another difficulty with this. Over at Exmormons somebody chimed in with this...
I think this guy [me] is a plant.
What could be more convenient for the church than to find out the names of many of its apostates and expel them? Of course the church wants to know your names, and this guy could be one of their agents!
My reply was...
Excellent point.
Issues of trust, or better yet legal accountability to the individual, would have to be paramount for the thing to work. Thanks for pointing this out. I'm not a plant, but it's futile telling anyone that until I reveal my OWN identity. Ha Ha, catch 22.
philo
Philo,
Are you about to "Come out"?
Reminds me of Richard Eagans classic comment in "The 300 Spartans":
"I must go outside and expose myself to the men!"
Englishman.
..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.
