Comments You Will Not Hear at the 4-17-05 WT Study

by blondie 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Flash
    Flash

    jgnat

    Flash, you should like this then. In those selfsame pararagraphs, is this gem:

    "True, many Christian men have priveleges in the congregation that women do not expect to have...nevertheless, the same faith, endurance, and high moral standards are required of all... (crossouts added) (para 9)

    Your right, when I read that I started to fume, "women do not expect to have..." ??? Only because they've been told not to 'expect' them! The Witnesses are disciples of Paul more than they are followers of Christ.

    I was surpised though that they even aknowledged that women were 'in any way' equal to men.

  • DaCheech
    DaCheech

    Most people in the troof I know date for 2-6 months & get married fast. How are they supposed to know each other in that short time?

    I asked some why, and they said to avoid heat of passion when dating for prolonged amount of time! what shit this is!

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    This is really an irritating article, and like most these days, dangerous to one's mental health.

    My three gripes:

    1. No real wonder, Blondie, why they don't attribute the author, especially with the quote from Wallerstein: it is intelligent, considered and reveals an understanding of emotional health that the WT writers will never grok. If they allow the readers to know who wrote it, they run the risk of being upstaged by much better advice: real marriage counseling.

    The quote refers to separating from the family of history and the ability to resolve conflicts; when was the last time the WT ever dealt with such sophisticated ideas?? Never.

    2. They just can't give women any credit; instead of allowing that women are emotionally stronger than men, they talk about their weaknesses and their PERIODS. [There; not so hard to say it, huh? Please, no more euphemisms for it; it is a fact of life. Why are the WT writers so afraid it?? Never grew up I guess. I would venture to say that if men had periods, they would call in sick for days, and people would routinely get killed or beat up even more.]

    Anyway, they instead talk of the requirements for women being the same as for men, and opportunities for life in the New order, etc etc. No mention either of the fact that Paul and Peter lived in and were influenced by the Middle Eastern culture of no respect for women and no allowance of women in positions of power. 2 weeks ago we sat through the GHASTLY article telling us why Lot was not a scumball for offering up his daughters for rape; Peter called him righteous don't ya know and that means (in LaLa WT land) that what Lot did was OK. Yikes.

    They were cooked in the Mideast stew of lack of respect for women!! Just admit it, and then we can have the discussion of why women should have all the same positions men do in the congregation. About time, too.

    3. Never have I seen such a lack of respect for people who are not witnesses. How DARE you call a non-witness an "unbeliever" just because he is not a JW?? Any non-witness who sits through this intellectual mugging would be insulted to be called an "unbeliever" if he believes in God and Jesus!!

    And how would you like to be a witness with a non-witness mate at this WT study? Your marriage is a success only "in the sense" that it can be happy and productive. Wow. Marriages between a witness and a non-witness are probably more accustomed to power sharing and respect than marriages in the "truth"; how about some KUDOS for people who work it out and are stronger for it? Grrrrrrrrrrr. The arrogance of the WT is beyond description.

    All in all, most people should NOT be present for this stinker if you care about your marriage. Some men will have their misogynistic tendencies reinforced; women will again be insulted by insinuations they are simpering, emotionally whipsawn victims of their hormones. Dubs with non-witness mates will again be made to feel unwelcome and less than all others, and doomed to less of a marriage in the eyes of the congregation if they can work it out at all. Non-witness mates will be insulted by being called "unbelievers".

    Stay home, instead, and try to download that very good article by Wallerstein and Blakeslee; determine to tell your mate that you love them, appreciate their sacrifices for you and your children, and that you are fortunate to have them in your life. That will do more for your marriage than this twisted mess.

  • EvilForce
    EvilForce

    It's just another control mechanism...women are weaker therefore should listen to the elders and their husbands come hell or high water.

    Just like they control the men with yanking their "priveleges". It's truly not about the "priveleges" themselves but the loss of an activity that garners them respect within the congregation.

    JW's behavior with women is only about 50 years out of date.

  • cyber-sista
    cyber-sista

    11 What, though, if marriage mates have different religious views because one of them accepted Christian truth some time after they got married and the other did not? Can such a marriage succeed? The experience of many says yes. A husband and wife with different religious views can still have a successful marriage in the sense that it can be enduring and bring happiness to both. Besides, the marriage is still valid in Jehovah's eyes; they are still "one flesh." Therefore, Christian spouses are counseled to stay with the unbelieving partner if that partner is agreeable. If there are children, they benefit from the faithfulness of the Christian parent.?1 Corinthians 7: 12-14.

    12 Peter addresses kindly words of counsel to Christian women living in religiously divided households. His words can also be applied in principle by Christian husbands in the same situation. Peter writes: "You wives, be in subjection to your own husbands, in order that, if any are not obedient to the word, they may be won without a word through the conduct of their wives, because of having been eyewitnesses of your chaste conduct together with deep respect."?1 Peter 3:1, 2.

    OK, when I was a witness this was very disturbing to me because the problem with this is no matter what kind of a great example I tried to be as a wife to my unbelieving mate, how could I explain to my hubby why all the other bad things he saw in going on in the congo ? Over the years he had seen many bad JW marriages--some abusive. He had been ripped off by JWs (loaning them money) etc etc. I was always making excused to him for the bad conduct of the JWs.

    At many times too he was unlovingly treated as an unbeliever . Even at times when the witnesses were nice to him he sensed it as being a phoney nice, which it was, because I know what was said behind his back. Later he saw what little respect the elders had for our family when they harrassed me when my non-JW daughter chose to marry a non-JW. I was told that being married to an unbeliever was like Satan being married to Jesus--refering to my daughter and myself.

    How can a wife of an unbelieving mate show truly show love and respect for her husband under the WT arrangement? It is impossible. The main reason I ended up leaving the org was because I loved my family and did not want to hurt them as the WT was instructing me to do. If I had followed the directions from local elder body and C.O it would have destroyed my family.

    13 If a wife can tactfully explain her faith to her husband, that is fine. What, though, if he does not want to listen? That is his choice.

    NOT ALWAYS, I knew of sisters who harrassed their husbands for not being JWs using their association with the organization as a weapon against them--these were not happy marriages

    Still, all is not lost, since Christian conduct also gives a powerful witness. Many husbands who at first were not interested in or who were even opposed to the faith of their wives became "rightly disposed for everlasting life" after seeing the fine conduct of their wives. (Acts 13:48) Even if a husband does not accept Christian truth, he may still be favorably impressed by the conduct of his wife, with good results for the marriage. One husband whose wife is one of Jehovah's Witnesses admitted that he could never live up to their high standards. Still, he called himself "the happy husband of a charming wife" and warmly praised his wife and her fellow Witnesses in a letter to a newspaper.

    BALONY!

    thanks blondie,

    cybs

  • jadedgramma
    jadedgramma

    Pistoff-

    "3. " Never have I seen such...any non-witness who sits through this intellectual mugging would be insulted to be called an unbeliever if he believes in God and Jesus."

    On the contrary, Pistoff! Perhaps they would consider themselves 'blessed' as I now do to be counted among the 'unbelievers' according to WTS. After years of crippling depression (catalyst?learning of my then 10 yr old daughter's sexual molestation by her paternal JW grandfather) and becoming inactive I was told by the PO that I was NOT a JW-he sneeringly asked me when do YOU preach or witness? This sham of a sheparding call was to see if I was committing some heinous sins they should be aware of. So by my own choice I refuse to go the local KH and be flogged mentally, emotionally and spiritually by those responsible for my 'spiritual welfare' and their source the grand WTS. Each and every day I rejoice that according to the WTS I am now an "unbeliever"!

    My advice to those still attending and suffering the same-consider these "lessons" just what they are, an odious, fetid,reeking blast of flatulence! And as such run quickly from the vicinity thereof. Most importantly, as you ponder the incredulous offensiveness of this stench,as in all flatulence-consider the source!!!

    Crass, crude? Yeah but not anywhere near what I wish I dared say.

    jadedgramma

  • mamochan13
    mamochan13

    Well done and well said, as usual, blondie.

    Like jgnat, I picked up on the nasty implication that non-jw's (unbelieving mates) are de facto bad spouses & parents simply by nature of not being jw's. The comment that children will benefit from the faithfulness of the "christian parent" (discounting the contribution of the other), and that all non-jw men waste money and use abusive language...is a sickening attitude, and terribly dangerous to one's mental health, as pistoff says.

    No wonder as kids we had no respect for my non-jw father. And he was(is) a good man - never heard him utter a swear word in my life (unlike my jw mother), nor did he ever waste a penny of his hard-earned money. I'm sure we would have benefitted to a greater degree from his many good qualities, but we were brought up to view him as unworthy. We were not allowed to go to him with our troubles, since he was apparently unable to provide us with good counsel (read non-jw). i still find it hard to talk to him and have a healthy relationship with him. Breaks my heart.

    I also enjoyed your historical overview of Wt attitude towards women's "weakness". Nice to know that hasn't changed one iota (not that I expected any enlightenment among the blind).

    As a side point - the "exhausting trials of being pregnant and giving birth" certainly merit consideration, but pregnancy and childbirth is not an illness (nor is menstruation for that matter), and I'd suggest that women actually prove themselves physically superior through these particular feminine attributes.

  • heathen
    heathen

    Yah , yet another steaming pile served up with some fossilized crap on the side . I notice these articles never mention jesus words of do unto others or love thy neighbor . They also like to leave out the parts of women learning in silence or that they would be "saved " through faith, child bearing and sanctification provided they had soundness of mind .There is no mention of women in the co-ruler spot with christ but they continue to give opinions that are not in scripture . I think the title should be , Jehovah witnesses suck at relationships and are hypocrites .I mean jeeze can't people just be married to each other without an organization in there somewhere ? The apostle Paul had a knack for changing things as he went along . The only way to notice it is if you read all his writings and not just take a few out to write an article . I really think they need to reevaluate the apostle Paul writings which they haven't done and put things into perspective . This is just more convoluted dogma .

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    At our KH the picture on page 18 drew most comments - about a letter from Paul/Peter being read to th early congregation on how men were to treat women- and many passed comment on how the women were looking at the men -out of the corner of their eye

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Jaded:

    coming from a family that KNOWS flatulence as a power sport, that is an apt reference!!

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit