Hey i need help. I am stuck trying to explain when the 144 thousand without any refference material. I am stuck in a remote lacal debating a couple of things and this topice came up. I need some quick scriptures explain the 144 thousand, and if you would be so kind as to provid a explanaition of this in lamen terms that would be greatly appreicated.
144 thousand
by jody 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
aChristian
No one can say with certainty how the number 144,000 in revelation was meant by god to be understood. Talk to several Christians and you will get several different understandings. So, all I can do is give you mine. Here it is.
I believe the number "144,000" in Revelation was not meant to be understood as a literal number. Revelation is filled with symbolisms including many symbolic numbers. I believe that this is certainly one of them. Notice that in Rev. 7 John does not see two groups of people. He first hears a number. He then sees a great crowd which no one is able to number. I believe the number he hears applies symbolically to the crowd of people he then sees. I believe that great crowd of people which John saw was made up of all of God's people throughout time. For 12 is the number the Bible uses to represent God's people. In Old Testament times there were 12 tribes. Thus 12 is used to represent all of God's faithful Old Covenant people. In New Testament times there were 12 apostles. Thus 12 is also used to represent all of God's faithful New Covenant people. Together these two groups of people form a great crowd. The number 1,000 represents a large group of people. The three numbers multiplied together, 12 x 12 x 1000, total 144,000 and represent all of God's faithful people throughout time, from both physical and spiritual Israel, Jews and Christians.
JWs say that the number 144,000 is a literal number. But they also say that the 12 tribes of Israel spoken of in connection with the number 144,000 are not the literal 12 tribes of Israel. And they say that the 12,000 which are said to come from each of those tribes are also not meant to be understood literally. So, you may want to ask them how is it that they multiply two symbolic numbers together and come up with a literal number. Nah. Don't bother. JW math is always pretty tricky stuff.
-
AGuest
May you have peace!
May I attempt an explanation at what the Revelations SAYS? Thank you:
"... a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of ... every tribe... of the sons of Israel."
I ask you, what is so 'mysterious' about that? My Father made a promise to Abraham regarding his (Abraham's) 'seed'. The 'sealing' of the 144,000 is in fulfillment of that promise. Israel rebelled, rejected God, rejected His Son, their 'saviour'... but so that His word that when forth from His mouth would not return without results, God... 'sealed' 144,000 of Abraham's seed, out of each tribe, excluding Dan (Joseph received a 'double share').
Where the WT is WRONG, however, is they misinterpret this number to be made up of both Israelites (Jews)... AND the nations. They are in error. First, the 144,000 are Israelites, with only TWO tribes being "Jews"... Judah... and Benjamin... which tribes actually did make up the Jews. The other TEN tribes, however, make up the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel... the Samaritans. Jews (Judah and Benjamin), were the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah, that occupied Judea, with its capital city of Jerusalem. However, the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel occupied the territory of SAMARIA (thus, they are 'Samaritans'), with its capital city of Bethel (which was a center of false worship due to Jeroboam's installation of non-Levitical priests into service at the temple there because he didn't want to travel all the way to Jerusalem. Some of those priests left Bethel... and went and served in the temple at Jerusalem).
But the 'sacred secret' that the WT has completely overlooked is that the NATIONS would rule WITH Israel... as kings and priests. That is why AFTER seeing those sealed from among the sons of Israel, John ALSO saw... 'a great crowd'... which NO man was able to number. Where did John see this 'crowd'? "Standing before the throne of God."
Now, the WT erroneously teaches that such 'standing' is not actually BEFORE the throne, but 'in sight of'. That is a lie, for at least two reasons:
1. God's throne is in heaven, and these were standing before that throne; thus, they, too, were in heaven; and (most importantly)
2. It is what such ones were DOING that let's us know who they are: RENDERING SACRED SERVICE IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD.
I ask you, who can RIGHTLY render 'sacred service' in God's temple... except priests?
Is there 'scriptural' basis for this understanding? Yes. Revelation 5:9, 10, says:
"... with your blood you bought persons for God
out of EVERY tribe and tongue and people and nation...
and you made THEM to be... a kingdom... and PRIESTS
to our God... and they will rule AS KINGS... over
the earth."Notice such ones did not come 'out of' ONLY 'the sons of Israel'... but EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people.
The WT has perpetuated the LIE that the 144,000 represent only a small flock of 'sheep' that will go to heaven. In TRUTH, while the Israelites in particular, and Jews in general DID represent a small flock, my Lord said that he also had OTHER sheep that he would call... and these would become ONE flock... with one shepherd.
By convincing its followers that only 144,000 are included in the co-rulership with Christ, the WT has successfully 'shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men', which is what they were set up by Satan to do. They have convinced more than 15,000,000 people (counting those dead in the flesh and those who attend their 'Memorial)... NOT to 'eat and drink' the flesh of Christ... which is how one comes into UNION with God and Christ ('communion' - and no, I am not Catholic). They have in essenced completely DENIED the 'bread of life' to many of mankind by convincing them that they are unworthy to eat and drink, in DIRECT OPPOSITION of my Lord's words at John 6:48-56.
The 144,000 are literal Israelites, fleshly 'seed' of Abraham. the 'great crowd' are those who REPLACE Israel, who was first invited to become my Father's chosen 'nation', but lost such by means of their hard-heartedness.
The 12 Apostles then, were witnesses of Christ... 'in all Judea and Samaria'. They were sent to the 'lost sheep of Israel'. Paul, however... was an apostle... 'to the nations'. And it was he that revealed the 'sacred secret' revealed to HIM... that a people who was NOT His, would be called His... by my Father. Such people... are the nations, tribes and tongues... that make up the 'great crowd'.
I bid you peace,
A slave of Christ,
SJ
-
claudia
Shelby, you have some definite beleifs, very interesting. May I ask if you go to a particular church? And if so are they beleifs of the church? thanks, I always enjoy reading your posts
-
cecil
Interesting thread...
I have been thinking a lot about the 144.000-issue lately. I find Shelbys (AGuests?) contribution very interesting. But I have a problem with Shelbys point of view. Maybe he himself can explain that - others are wellcome too.
If the 144.000 are fleshly Israelites, and the great crowd is a second group, with hope for heavenly life as well - who is going to live on earth? What is going to happen with the rest of mankind, who has no heavenly hop (no hope at all?!)? Are they going to be those to live on mother earth (after all: If everybody serving Jehovah God is ressurected to heavenly life after death and everybody not serving Jehovah is supposed to die in Armageddon - who wil be left to live on earth. Who could the heavenly brothers of Jesus Christ help as priests and kings, if nobody was left on earth?...) Will both the 144.000 AND the great crowd CONTINUE to have heavenly life - even after their work as priests and kings is done after a period of 1000 years? Will they become superior angels (as taught by the WT today) or are they going to return to live on earth afterwards (that could be a completely new point of view) - maybe given the possibility to choose to get their human lifes back...?
A lot of questions - answers appreciated...
cecil
-
2bfound
Very well said SJ, spoken(written) like a true Christian. I don't see why some people still find a way to dismiss a literal translation where the text demands it.
I've followed your threads, elsewhere. In a sentence, (2 cor 13:5) good to have you here brother.
May we all find ourselves slaves of the Almighty.
In His name
Rb. -
AGuest
May you all have peace!
Thank you for you very kind words... they are truly appreciated. Please know, however, that what I share with you is not my own... it is 'given' me by my Lord. I hope that's not too 'far out' for you to deal with, but it is the truth, and I will always speak the truth to you, for that is who speaks to me (John 14:6; Proverbs 8:4-11). I have been granted leave to answer your questions, and in truth, they are not very difficult.
Dearest Claudia, may I say that no, I do not 'belong' to a church, for in truth, dear one, I AM the 'church'... along with all those of the Body of Christ. Let me explain:
A 'church', is, in actuality, a 'temple'. That's why folks 'go to' church, to a building or other structure to worship God. In truth, however, we don't 'go to' God... rather He, by means of Christ and WITH Christ... comes to us. Together they come and make their 'abode' in US... thus dwelling IN us... by means of holy spirit... and thus making US the 'church'... or temple... of God. We are in fact called... 'living stones'... and even 'pillars'... in that temple. WE... are the 'house' that God is 'building' so as to 'inhabit by spirit'.
John 14:23
Romans 8:9
1 Corinthians 3:16
Ephesians 2:19-21
1 Peter 2:5, 8
Revelation 3:12Christ is the foundation 'cornerstone' of that 'building', the One that 'anchors' it all; the Apostles are the foundation... and their FAITH... is the 'rock-mass' on which WE are 'built'. We... are the structure itself. Our faith... that my Lord IS the Son of God so as to listen to HIM, such as that consistently exhibited by Peter and the other apostles... adds TO the rock-mass, so as to make it immovable. Thus, our temples... or 'vessels' (that which holds something within it, in this case, the spirit of God through Christ) are kept solid, standing, even in the greatest windstorm.
Matthew 16:18
Matthew 17:3
1 Corinthians 10:4And since I AM the 'church', Claudia, there only need be one other 'stone' to form a 'building', so that my Lord's words, 'where two or more are gather... in my name... there I am also', is truth.
However, as part of that 'church' or 'temple' or Body of Christ, I do belong to a 'congregation'. It the Congregation... of the Firstborn... which has been scattered throughout the earth and to the four winds. There are others of this congregation that I know and love... and have a sharing with. I have explained that in a post elsewhere, and will link it here later, if I can.Dearest Cecil, first please let me say that I am a 'she'. And if that 'stumbles' you dear one, may I ask you to remember the words of the prophet Joel, as reiterated by Paul(?) at Acts 2:17, 18 regarding what would occur BEFORE the 'portents in heaven and signs on earth', before you allow yourself to form an adverse opinion as to whether I have the 'authority' to share what I have been given with you, a man? Thank you. I make this statement because of your assumption that I am a 'he himself'. I am sorry, I am not, but you will have to take that issue, if indeed it IS an issue, up with my Father. I am merely a slave of Christ... and I obey him, not Paul.
Psalm 4:4
Now, to address your questions, if I may:
If the 144.000 are fleshly Israelites, and the great crowd is a second group, with hope for heavenly life as well - who is going to live on earth?
All of them. If you recall, Eden was on the earth, yes? And what of New Jerusalem? Does it not 'come down OUT of heaven'? Indeed, is it not 'over the breadth OF THE EARTH' that Satan leads Gog and Magog to advance, and it is not the 'camp of the HOLY ONES and BELOVED CITY' that such ones 'encircle'? Unless such ones are ALSO in heaven... and they are not... the 'city'... would have to be on earth. And it is. That is why the Psalmist RIGHTLY said, "The meek will INHERIT THE EARTH... and they will reside forever... UPON it."
The 'problem' is that the Revelation is not in 'chronological' order, dear Cecil; never was. John saw the in 'parts'... that which he had been shown many years before, that which he was being shown at the time, and that which he was to BE shown. And he wrote it down as he remembered it, as it was revealed to him at that time, and as it was later revealed to him. That is why he says, "And I saw... and I saw... and I saw..." rather than, "And after THAT, THIS happened."
As further 'proof' of this, the Revelation speaks about the great day of God Almighty in Chapters 16 and 19, and the Lamb's war (which is different, I promise you), in Chapter 17. Babylon falls in Chapter 18; however, does Babylon fall AFTER 'Armageddon'? No, for Armageddon takes place in Chapter 20, AFTER THE 1,000 YEARS HAVE ENDED, then Satan is let loose and 'gathers' Gog and Magog outside the city... on the 'plain of Meggido'.
Revelation 21:2, 3
Revelation 20:7-9
Revelation 1:11, 19
2 Corinthians 12:2What is going to happen with the rest of mankind, who has no heavenly hope (no hope at all?!)?
You have been misled, Cecil. You have been told that there is a heavenly hope... and an earthly hope. In TRUTH, however, there is only ONE hope... to dwell in the city 'having REAL foundations'... eternally. ONE hope, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE Lord... ONE 'flock'... with ONE 'shepherd'.
Ephesians 4:4
John 10:16
Matthew 23:13Are they going to be those to live on mother earth after all
"Earth"... is not our 'mother', those who are of the Body of Christ. Earth... or the physical realm... is a slave, and all those who are HER 'children'... those who walk by flesh... are slaves OF that flesh and that realm. Our Mother, however, is Jerusalem Above, my Father's FREE wife, the SPIRIT realm and IT'S 'covenant'. She is FREE... and so are her children, because the SPIRIT... is SET free by my Lord. It is the physical flesh that remains in slavery.
The Earth has 'given birth' to MANY children... that our enslaved to the physical flesh, in that their flesh leads THEM... into sin. However, Jerusalem Above had given birth only to the HEAD of her 'child', my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. It is the 'body'... my brothers and I... that still await 'birth'. Some of us have been 'fertilized' by the spirit of my Father, so that we have been CONCEIVED... and 'regenerated' in spirit... but such 'birth' takes place at the putting off of the physical flesh and putting ON of the 'white robe' of the spirit body... the CLEAN garment... one without sin and death in it.
Galatians 4:24-26
John 8:32, 36What you have been misled to understand and believe is that those resurrected to heaven... STAY in heaven. That is not the truth. In TRUTH, what occurs is such ones are resurrected and TAKEN to heaven... for a marriage ceremony in my Father's house. THAT... takes place in heaven, in the city of New Jerusalem. Afterward, however, that city comes down to the vicinity of the earth and thus the things 'in the heavens' and the things 'on the earth' are brought back together again... as it was in the beginning, with Eden. Inside that city, righteousness will dwell. OUTSIDE that city, however, is another story.
Revelation 22:15
The first to gain 'entry' to that city are those of the Bride of Christ, the kings and priests of the 144,000 and great crowd. Once they have been joined to Christ officially, however, and become ONE SPIRIT... others are invited to 'enter into' that joy, by participating in the marriage 'feast'. This is when New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven to the earth, and those who did 'good' to my Lord and my brothers, are told to 'Come, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world' (the throwing down of the 'seed' of my mother, New Jersualem, TO the earth)... and are granted entry. They are the ‘Rahabs’, the ‘sheep’ that are NOT Israel, but by their faith in the GOD of Israel… and ‘good’ shown toward the brothers of Christ… save themselves… AND their households.
Israel, those who are Abraham’s seed and thus accept Christ as messiah, the 144,000… as well as those who ‘go with’ Israel, the ‘great crowd’… are made to be a nation of kings and priests. This is in fulfillment of the FACT that it was Israel… AND THE VAST MIXED COMPANY who left Egypt with them who:
1. Celebrated the Passover by eating the lamb with bitter greens;
2. Were circumcised in the flesh
3. Cross the Red Sea
4. Ate the manna
5. Drank from the rock-mass
6. Entered into the Law Covenant at Mt. SinaiThe Society, however, would have you believe that only the Israelites did all of these things, again, in opposition to my Lord’s words that “ANYONE may eat of” his flesh and drink his blood. Because unlike the Old Covenant, which was given to Israel and those who became by means of the things in items 1-6 above, the NEW Covenant is opened to ANY… who ‘wish’ it. Thus, the false prophets and christs (‘anointed’) of the Society teaches that you will live forever; however, the word of my Lord is that “UNLESS you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood… YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOURSELVES.”
1 Corinthians 10:3-5
John 6:48, 51, 53
Revelation 22:17
Matthew 24:24If everybody serving Jehovah God is resurrected to heavenly life after death and everybody not serving Jehovah is supposed to die in Armageddon - who wil be left to live on earth.
First, you must understand that there are TWO resurrections:
1. The ‘first’ resurrection, in which those, who ‘belong to Christ… during his presence…’ which is from the time he revealed himself as the Son of God until his return (for he is STILL present, albeit invisible – “Look! I am WITH you… all the days until the conclusion of the age…”); and
2. The ‘general’ resurrection, which occurs AFTER the 1,000 years have ended.
1 Corinthians 15:20-24
Revelation 20:4-6
Revelation 20:7, 11-15The first resurrection occurs when my Lord returns from having gone to ‘prepare a place’ for us. At that time, those who belonged to my Lord during his presence are raised up spirits AT THE SAME TIME as those who did NOT die… are ‘changed’… in a twinkling.
1 Corinthians 15:51, 52
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17This is the resurrection of the ‘righteous’ and is fulfilled in my Lord words that “he who believes in me and has died will come back to life and he that has not died… will never die.” The first part of that group is ‘resurrected’, which means raised up from the dead. The second part, however, are those who are changed… and thus, NEVER die.
The ‘general’ resurrection, however, includes ALL those that have died… in the flesh… but did not take part in the first resurrection. It would include Adam, Eve and Judas. Why? Because although such ones died… in the flesh… they have not yet been JUDGED… for eternal destruction. They must still stand before the throne of God.
Those taking part in the first resurrection are resurrected to heaven, for their marriage to the Lamb. Thus, just as a man and woman become ‘one flesh’, such ones become one SPIRIT… with Christ Once that marriage is complete, their dwelling place, New Jerusalem is brought BACK to the earth, where God once placed it (Eden; Paradise). At that time, such ones sit down on their thrones, with Christ… and the separation of the sheep and goats commences. Those deemed sheep, by means of their treatment of Christ’s brothers… are granted entry to the marriage feast, which takes place INSIDE the city. Those that are deemed goats, are ‘cut off’ from entry into that city.
This is in fulfillment of ancient tradition where a man is married in his father’s house, and after the ceremony, invites all his friends to share in a feast. Today, we call it a ‘reception’.
The reason the goats are ‘cut off’ is because inside that city exists my Lord, the TRUE VINE, the Tree of Life, who from which if they ‘eat’…they will live forever. And it is Satan who convinces such goats, Magog, along with the angels that were cast out, Gog, to come against that city in order to ‘conquer’ it and gain access to that Tree. He thus ‘gathers them to the place, that in Hebrew is called ‘Har-Mageddon’. But my Father intervenes. He conducts HIS war, by breathing fire from heaven, which devours such interlopers. Thus, by destroying Gog, wicked spirits, and Magog, wicked humans, the heavens and earth ‘that have been stored up for fire’… are cleansed… and there are NEW heavens and a NEW earth… free of both spiritual AND physical wickedness.
Thus, ONLY the ‘righteous’ are left… and they dwell in my Father’s ‘holy mountain’, Zion, on which sits the ‘city having REAL foundations’… NEW Jerusalem.
Who could the heavenly brothers of Jesus Christ help as priests and kings, if nobody was left on earth?...)
The ‘sheep’, who inherit the kingdom PREPARED for them.
Will both the 144.000 AND the great crowd CONTINUE to have heavenly life - even after their work as priests and kings is done after a period of 1000 years?
They don’t have a ‘heavenly’ life, so much as they have a SPIRITUAL life. All that is heavenly… is spiritual. But the city is not in heaven, at least, not in the Holy… or MOST Holy… which is where my Father resides.
Will they become superior angels (as taught by the WT today) or are they going to return to live on earth afterwards (that could be a completely new point of view) - maybe given the possibility to choose to get their human lifes back...?
EXCELLENT question! First, they are not angels but become ‘like’ angels, in the sense that they become spirits. Angels are spirits, but angels are not ‘sons’. These, however, ARE sons, by means of holy spirit. They WILL live on the earth, for they are to do what Adam and Eve were supposed to do… spread that ‘city’s boundaries throughout the entire earth. New Jerusalem will be the ‘capital’… or central ‘seat’ of this, but eventually the entire earth will be encompassed by this ‘righteousness’.
As for getting their human lives back, funny you should ask that. The words of my Lord was, “The flesh… is of NO use at all.” However, early on, there were some angels who thought differently… and CHOSE the physical flesh in order to have relations with human women. Thus, once the citizens of this righteousness put on incorruption, they would have to CHOOSE to put on ‘corruption’ once again. Indeed, while we can go in and out of the city (which is why it has gates), corruption will NOT be allowed back inside, just as Adam and Eve were not allowed back into Eden. Why? Because that which is corrupt can only become INCORRUPT again, if it eats of the Tree of Life. Thus, there are angels positioned at the ‘gates’ of this city, to prevent such corruption from reentering.
Genesis 6:2
Jude 6
Revelation 21:12
Genesis 3:22-24A lot of questions - answers appreciated...
Hopefully, I have done just that, by means of my Lord, through holy spirit.
Again, I bid you all peace… to time indefinite… you… AND your entire households.
A TRUE servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those that ‘go with’ them, and a TRUE slave of Christ,
SJ
-
pomegranate
>>Angels are spirits, but angels are not ‘sons’.<<
Gen 6:1-2
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.Gen 6:4
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.Job 38:7
7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?>>I am merely a slave of Christ... and I obey him, not Paul.<<
Paul's words are Christ's words. Paul was chosen as the Apostle to the nations. His words are directed to you and I straight from God.
1 Tim 2:11-15
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.Well, why is that do tell us Apostle Paul...
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
1 Cor 14:33-35
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.1 Tim 3:1-13
3:1 Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.8 Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11 In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12 A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.
Titus 2:3-5
3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.If you ARE a slave of Christ as you tout, and Paul most assuredly was a slave of Christ (and he had the POWER to back it up) why aren't you and Paul united in the same mind and the same line of thought regarding the above? You contradict each other.
Let's see. Who should I listen to, the Apostle who's writings are compiled in the Bible, who was directly sent to the Gentiles to give all of God's teachings to us, or you, who says Paul's words are null and void because you are a woman trying to teach men in a "church" setting.
Explain your contradiction in light of scripture please.
-
pomegranate
Aguest says:
>>>>"... a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of ... every tribe... of the sons of Israel."
I ask you, what is so 'mysterious' about that? My Father made a promise to Abraham regarding his (Abraham's) 'seed'. The 'sealing' of the 144,000 is in fulfillment of that promise. Israel rebelled, rejected God, rejected His Son, their 'saviour'... but so that His word that when forth from His mouth would not return without results, God... 'sealed' 144,000 of Abraham's seed, out of each tribe, excluding Dan (Joseph received a 'double share').<<<(Underscoring Added)
But the Apostle Paul says this:
Gal 3:16
16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.You are teaching against Paul's teaching.
You my dear are a false teacher.
-
AGuest
Dearest 'Pom... may you have peace... and may I suggest you get yourself a Hebrew lexicon/concordance and look all those scriptures regarding the 'sons of God' up again, okay? If you are a JW or XJW, you can simply look IN THE FOOTNOTE of the NWT Reference Bible.
Then read and GET THE SENSE OF Hebrews 1:5, which says of God:
"To which one of the angels did He (God) EVER say,
'You are my Son; I, today I have become your Father."As far as Paul being an apostle, indeed, he was an apostle... 'to the nations'. And thus, as a child of the nations, perhaps his words WERE directed to you. However, I am not a child of the nations, but a 'seed' of Abraham, a direct descendant by means of my forefather, Ben-JAH-min. As such, then, I follow the LAMB... and it was HE who said to ISRAEL:
"... your LEADER... is one, Christ."
(Paul(?), however, repeatedly encouraged the 'nations'... to be like him. Hmmm...)
And it is of my Lord, the Lamb of God, that my Father said:
"This is my Son, the beloved. Listen... to HIM."
As a child of Abraham, then, I put MY faith in the words of the prophet Joel who said:
"Even upon my men slaves... and my WOMEN slaves...
I will pour out some of my spirit... and THEY...
will prophesy."You exercise the same 'spirit' of Paul... and those of the disciples... when their HEARTS questioned my Lord speaking to a woman. I would encourage YOU, however, to look at the letters supposedly written by Paul, and discern who REALLY wrote them (you would, though, have to READ them)... and also know that Paul's admonition was not because of the Law Covenant NOR the New Covenant, for neither taught silence of women (otherwise, Deborah was a 'transgressor' of the Law, yes? And yet, my Father installed HER... as a judge... and one to which MEN had to go for counsel... yes?).
The admonition was due to the CIVIL law... OF ROME... which prohibited women from speaking in public. Paul... was a Roman... and knew the danger to the congregation. Thus, since the MEN were allowed to meet in public places, they were to take whatever they learned BACK HOME and share it with their wives. HOWEVER... in private homes... and where there was NO such civil law... women were not restricted from speaking. Had they been, then the prophecy from Joel, which was FIRST fulfilled right after the outpourting of holy spirit at Pentecost 30CE... would have been a LIE. Now, do you really want to 'go' THERE, 'Pom?
Acts 2:17, 18
And Paul(?) would not have admonished a 'headcovering' for women who DID pray... and prophesy.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ
SJ