144 thousand

by jody 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • cecil
    cecil
    Dearest Cecil, first please let me say that I am a 'she'. And if that 'stumbles' you dear one, may I ask you to remember the words of the prophet Joel, as reiterated by Paul(?) at Acts 2:17, 18 regarding what would occur BEFORE the 'portents in heaven and signs on earth', before you allow yourself to form an adverse opinion as to whether I have the 'authority' to share what I have been given with you, a man? Thank you. I make this statement because of your assumption that I am a 'he himself'. I am sorry, I am not, but you will have to take that issue, if indeed it IS an issue, up with my Father. I am merely a slave of Christ... and I obey him, not Paul.

    sorry for calling you a HE. No problem for me here...!!! I'll have to read what you wrote as an answer, when I have time later today - and will let you know what I think of your answers.

    cecil
    (who is a HE - even if his real name is not cecil...)

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    >>I suggest you get yourself a Hebrew lexicon/concordance and look all those scriptures regarding the 'sons of God' up again, okay<<

    Gen 6:2
    2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful,

    The Hebrew word above is transliterated "baneey" which is the word for "son" in Hebrew. okay?

    >>I am not a child of the nations, but a 'seed' of Abraham,<<

    Gal 3:16
    16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

    Liar. There is only ONE seed, Christ.

    >>>"To which one of the angels did He (God) EVER say,
    'You are my Son; I, today I have become your Father."<<<

    Get the sense that Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. The only direct division/seperation out of God the Father, which came after Satanic rebellion, which is why Christ seperated from the Father in the first place, to rectify. After his being BEGOTTEN from the Father, Jesus then created ALL OTHER LIVING THINGS that are physical, making him also a "father". The Bible also shows that Christ is resposible for the lives of the angels, making him their "father" too. The Most Holy Father handed ALL THINGS over to the Son (Who is an everlasting Holy Father in his own right), so that all may be reconciled back unto the Most Holy Father. Angels FULLY retain their sonship (baneey) to Christ (since He DID create them, he IS their "father"), we though, need to be adopted back to God as "sons of light" because of sin.

    >>You exercise the same 'spirit' of Paul<<

    You are correct.

    Acts 13:8-11
    9 Then Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked straight at Elymas and said, 10 "You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?

    >>when their HEARTS questioned my Lord speaking to a woman.<<

    You twist my words and Paul's. I do not question the Lord speaking to a woman. It's a woman teaching a man in a "church" setting that is wrong, and that problem goes back to the garden. Eve userped Adam's headship.

    You are neither the "seed" or Deborah (a prophetess) nor anything like her, of which there was only ONE woman in the OT/NT as one backed with the leadership role and POWER of God just as there is only ONE seed of Abraham. Why? To make known that God chooses whoever HE wants, man or woman to do His will. GOD CHOSE only ONE woman to lead Israel to make plain a point to the Jewish men who would frequently put woman in derision and degradation. God chose only ONE woman to lead Israel to make plain a point that only God makes ALL LAW. And with that choosing of Deborah, was the backing of His POWER.

    >>The admonition was due to the CIVIL law... OF ROME... which prohibited women from speaking in public.<<

    Paul never taught woman were prohibited from speaking in public. He taught that TEACHING of men by woman in a "church" setting was prohibited. It imitates Eve teaching Adam that the fruit was OK to eat. WRONG.

    Man made law is man made tradition. If what you say is true then Paul is guilty of teaching man made laws and traditions as teachings of God, and he is guilty of violating his own recorded counsel:

    Col 2:8
    8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

    Wouldn't Paul then be taking the Christian congregation captive into man's laws and traditions and basic principles of this world? Yes he would. Did he by teaching the silence of woman in the "church" setting? No he didn't.

    He would also be guilty of defying Christ himself by teaching Roman law and tradition as Christian teaching:

    Mark 7:9-10
    9 And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!

    And if that's the case, then Paul was leading the church astray into hypocrisy, totally condemned by Christ:

    Luke 12:1
    Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

    If that's the case then EVERY SINGLE THING PAUL EVER WROTE is corrupted and contaminated, and he condemns himself by his own words TWICE:

    1 Cor 5:6
    Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough?

    Gal 5:8-9
    8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 "A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough."

    How could Paul be guilty of all the above and yet be filled with the Holy Spirit, which is mentioned many times?

    If what you say is true, then even God is guilty of letting one of his chosen ones teach basic principles and traditions and laws of men as teachings of God in the congregations. God then would have been guilty of letting the Bible be contaminated with the laws and traditions of men being desseminated to the congregations as HIS commands.

    Paul did not teach Roman law in the Christian congregation as you teach. You have been deceived. Now you bring this deception to "Adam" as God's truth and want "him" to eat.

    Sorry, not THIS "Adam."

  • 2bfound
    2bfound

    Sj, in one of your posts you wrote down:

    thus dwelling IN us... by means of holy spirit... and thus making US the 'church'... or temple... of God.

    You did not write The Holy spirit, should we take that you do not take the holy spirit as a person of the triune God head?
    Just asking, I see your theology is right on the head. Although I was not clear if you attend a church service?
    In HIS name
    Rb

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest 'Pom... may you have peace!

    The Hebrew word above is transliterated "baneey" which is the word for "son" in Hebrew. okay?

    Actually, the word has about eight definitions... and you have been misled into believing it is the one you've chosen. You are in error. You have listened to 'earthling' man... I have listened to my Lord. Try the very last definition, okay?

    Gal 3:16
    16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

    That is the 'promise' that by means of Abraham's seed, Christ, the nations would bless themselves. And it IS by means of Christ that that occurs. However, Abraham's seed became as many as the sands of the sea...

    Liar. There is only ONE seed, Christ.

    Unfortunately, it you that is in error. Isaac was the seed of Abraham... as was Ishmael. Yes? There are two right there. Then Abraham had other children by his wife after Sarah. More seed, yes? The entire nation of Israel, by means of being the seed of Jacob, his grandson, are the seed of Abraham. However, the promise that the nations would BLESS themselves... applied to only ONE of those seeds, my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. That is the meaning of Galatians 3:16.

    Get the sense that Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. The only direct division/seperation out of God the Father, which came after Satanic rebellion, which is why Christ seperated from the Father in the first place, to rectify.

    Again, you are in error. Adam... was also God's son. My Lord is my Father's 'only-begotten' son in the SAME way that Isaac was Abraham's
    'only-begotten' son... both were 'begotten' by the FREE wives of God and Abraham. Abraham's OTHER son, then, ISHMAEL, was ALSO an 'only-begotten' son... by Hagar, just as ADAM was an 'only-begotten' son... by the Earth. Both Abraham and my Father REFERRED to Isaac and my Lord as their 'only-begotten' sons because, by means of having been 'born of' their FREE wives, they were LEGITIMATE sons, NOT ILLEGITIMATE... and thus... HEIRS. Okay?

    After his being BEGOTTEN from the Father, Jesus then created ALL OTHER LIVING THINGS that are physical, making him also a "father".

    Again, you are in error. GOD... created all things... and He used MY LORD... to do it. My Lord was the 'conduit' of life... and it was THROUGH HIM, FOR HIM... and BY MEANS of him... that all things were created.

    The Bible also shows that Christ is resposible for the lives of the angels, making him their "father" too.

    Christ is 'responsible' for the angels, in that they are PART of the inheritance he received... FROM THE FATHER. "All AUTHORITY has been given me..."

    The Most Holy Father handed ALL THINGS over to the Son

    Yep.

    (Who is an everlasting Holy Father in his own right)

    He is an 'eternal (or everlasting) father, 'Pom, because it is by means of HIM... that we receive holy spirit so as to be CONCEIVED as 'sons' as well. My Father conceived Him and Adam, by means of His holy spirit. He has granted to my Lord, His SON... to conceive US... by means of that same spirit, which was given that Son... and it placed in US.

    so that all may be reconciled back unto the Most Holy Father.

    Yep, the things in the heavens... AND the things on earth.

    Angels FULLY retain their sonship (baneey) to Christ

    Angels are not 'sons' to my Lord... they are SERVANTS to him... and us.

    (since He DID create them, he IS their "father")

    Hmmmm... I find it 'funny' that you believe this, when the BIBLE that you put so much trust in says that the angels were there when creation of the earth began, and yet, my Lord was the FIRSTBORN... of all creation. He is the Light... that was 'created' on the 'first' day... between which my Father put 'enmity' with the Darkness. But then, you knew that, didn't you?

    we though, need to be adopted back to God as "sons of light" because of sin.

    Well, sort of. We were sent here, 'Pom, to be hidden in 'earthen vessels', until such time as my Father could FERTILIZE us, by means of His holy spirit. We are the 'seed' of the woman, His 'free' wife, Jerusalem Above. In the spirit realm, however, an enemy existed that attempted to 'devour' that seed BEFORE it could be fertilized... and born. That seed was first carried in Adam... and he SOLD IT... into sin and death. It has been transported since that time... in 'earthen vessels'... through Seth, to Noah, to Abraham, Isaac, David... to my Lord. He, my Lord, then transferred that seed... into US... those of us who put FAITH in him. Such 'fertilization and conception', dear 'Pom, takes place... IN... the Ark of the Covenant. So, such ones must make their way BACK to that Ark... BACK to the NEW Covenant... so as to receive such spirit in order to one day be 'born'... IN the spirit. As long as we are in that Ark, we are 'safe'... for the 'cover'... or PROPITIATORY... which is my Lord, will keep us from the Adversary.

    We are 'adopted' because... DUE TO SIN... while awaiting such fertilization by GOD... we received the spirit of ANOTHER 'father'... Death and Darkness. By our sin, HE 'conceived' us. However, my TRUE Father, JAH OF ARMIES, has conceded to take ALL such seed BACK... 'adopt' it back... by means of my Lord.

    >>You exercise the same 'spirit' of Paul<< You are correct.

    Which, on MANY occasions was a spirit of zeal... but without accurate knowledge. Paul taught Pharisaical 'law'... and had to be corrected. He taught judging... and had to recant. In addition, as I said, MOST of what Paul(?) wrote was to the 'nations'. I know the 'law' of my Father, however, for it is written... on my heart.

    Acts 13:8-11
    9 Then Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked straight at Elymas and said, 10 "You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?

    And for what REASON did Paul(?) say this of Elymas the sorceror? Because this one was trying to KEEP people from hearing the 'good news'. Which is what YOU are doing here.

    You twist my words and Paul's. I do not question the Lord speaking to a woman. It's a woman teaching a man in a "church" setting that is wrong, and that problem goes back to the garden. Eve userped Adam's headship.

    Ahh, but you do question it. My Lord spoke to such a woman... and told HER... 'go get your husband'. Now, would she have not had to TELL the man what she had been TOLD? And, indeed, did she not do just as she was directed? Why did my Lord not go find the man and invite him himself? And did not my Lord appear to Mary and tell HER to go tell the men? What was their response?

    I, too, hear the voice of my Lord... and I obey. He has said to me... "Speak what I tell you"... and so I do. If, then, sharing what has been given ME with MEN is a 'crime' under the Law Covenant, then indeed, I am guilty. However, I am not UNDER the Law Covenant, but under a NEW Covenant, which is a 'law'... of love. And just as I receive... I give. Thus, the Spirit... AND THE BRIDE... keep saying, "Come!"

    My Lord and my Father are MERCIFUL, 'Pom, and not dogmatic. They know that out of obedience... AND out of my heart's ABUNDANCE... I speak. If, then it is righteous in YOUR eyes to obey men... rather than obey God, decide for yourself. As for ME, I cannot STOP speaking about the things I have seen and heard. And, if it is also 'righteous' in YOUR eyes to 'judge the houseservant of another', please... don't let ME stop you. I am but a mere servant, with no such 'authority'. I leave the sorting out of the matter, then, to my Lord.

    You are neither the "seed" or Deborah (a prophetess) nor anything like her,

    Indeed, I am 'seed', both of Abraham AND of the 'woman' (Rev. 12:17). No, I am not Deborah (though I don't know how you would know whether I am 'anything like her', for in truth you KNOW neither of us. As for being a 'prophetess', I myself would not put such a title on myself. However, one of my 'gifts', by means of holy spirit... is that of prophesying, as well as discerning inspired utterances. And I will not deny that spirit, 'Pom... nor it's 'gifts'... for you or anyone else. For it has been revealed to ME, by my Lord, that to do so... would be blasphemy AGAINST that spirit. And I would caution YOU, in YOUR speaking against it as well. While you may not KNOW that you are in danger of doing it, ignorance will not necessarily 'cover over' it. I understand your 'zeal', truly, as does my Father and my Lord, but zeal does not, in and of itself, make right. Ask your leader, Paul.

    of which there was only ONE woman in the OT/NT as one backed with the leadership role and POWER of God just as there is only ONE seed of Abraham. Why? To make known that God chooses whoever HE wants, man or woman to do His will. GOD CHOSE only ONE woman to lead Israel to make plain a point to the Jewish men who would frequently put woman in derision and degradation. God chose only ONE woman to lead Israel to make plain a point that only God makes ALL LAW. And with that choosing of Deborah, was the backing of His POWER.

    Yes, and that was then... and this is now. Again, you belie the prophet Joel... and Peter's reiteration of that prophesy. And why IS that? Indeed, Paul prohibited women FROM AMONG THE NATIONS... because it was AGAINST THE LAW... but the prophesy was spoken to... and was to come to BE upon... Israel. And I have told you my ancestry.

    Paul never taught woman were prohibited from speaking in public. He taught that TEACHING of men by woman in a "church" setting was prohibited. It imitates Eve teaching Adam that the fruit was OK to eat. WRONG.

    Dearest 'Pom... I ask you... what 'authority' did Paul use to assert this prohibition? Did he not say it was according to the 'law'? Why, then, do you ASSUME that he was referring to the LAW COVENANT, when such individuals, the nations, were not UNDER the Law Covenant... never HAD been... and never COULD be... for that Law... was 'impaled' with my Lord so that even the JEWS were no longer under it? Why would you place Paul in a position of trying to put people BACK under the Law Covenant when that is the VERY thing he preached against?! Did Paul perhaps 'contradict' himself? Think, 'Pom, before you answer this one. Okay?

    Man made law is man made tradition. If what you say is true then Paul is guilty of teaching man made laws and traditions as teachings of God

    Then why would he TEACH to 'be in subjection to the superior authorities?' Do not such 'authorities' stand placed in their relative positions... BY God? Forget Paul, why then did my Lord say give to him 'who calls for honor, honor' and him 'who calls for tribute, tribute'? Did not my Lord pay the head tax? He was the SON OF GOD... what TAX did he owe? But... he paid it, and admonished his disciples to adhere to the law... of the land... as LONG as they did not 'overstep the commandments of God.'

    and he is guilty of violating his own recorded counsel:
    Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with 'civil' law, 'Pom. This is TRADITIONS and PHILOSOPHIES and PRINCIPLES of this world. If you can't tell the difference between these... and civil law... I am not sure I can help you 'see' it. Again, you can ask Paul. Indeed, he MIGHT answer you... and you MIGHT hear HIS 'voice', since you are HIS 'sheep'. John 10:1-6, 27

    Wouldn't Paul then be taking the Christian congregation captive into man's laws and traditions and basic principles of this world? Yes he would.

    No, he wasn't. He made a 'concession' for the safety of the congregation. The men would get the information and disseminate to the women... for THEIR safety... and that of the congregation. Christians were under a GREAT amount of persecution and many, particularly the Jews, would use ANY excuse to drag them before a court official... and even, perhaps, to the lions.

    Did he by teaching the silence of woman in the "church" setting? No he didn't.

    Answered above.

    He would also be guilty of defying Christ himself by teaching Roman law and tradition as Christian teaching:

    Civil law... is not 'tradition', 'Pom. And there is NOTHING wrong with tradition... so long as they do not OVERSTEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD. Paul was 'entrusted' with a people... and their safety was at risk. You must understand, the public meeting places were synagogues, which mainly permitted men to come in and speak PUBLICLY. THAT... was a 'tradition. Synagogues... were NOT established by God. The TEMPLE was. DUH!

    And if that's the case, then Paul was leading the church astray into hypocrisy, totally condemned by Christ:

    No, he wasn't. You've entirely missed the point of the matter, the basis, and have completely misunderstood what 'tradition' is. Making codes to ensure that buildings are safe is a civil law... one for the GOOD of the people. However, building them without a 13TH FLOOR... is 'tradition', which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with safety... or people. It is just a 'tradition' among builders and architects. Learn the difference... and get the sense of it, 'Pom.

    Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."

    If that's the case then EVERY SINGLE THING PAUL EVER WROTE is corrupted and contaminated

    No, it's not. You simply misunderstood his intent, is all.

    ... and he condemns himself by his own words TWICE

    I think that along with 'tradition', you might want to ask for an understanding of the word 'hypocrisy', as it is meant by my Lord. Paul will help you out, won't he?

    How could Paul be guilty of all the above and yet be filled with the Holy Spirit, which is mentioned many times?

    How did Peter, who was ALSO filled with the holy spirit, commit hypocrisy and bias? People 'err', 'Pom, as Paul did on MANY occasions, but not the one we're speaking of here. Again, it is YOU who misunderstand his intention, and have tried, like MOST men, to make it 'law'. The ONLY 'law' the Body of Christ is under, however, dear 'Pom... is the 'law'... of love.

    If you say is true, then even God is guilty of letting one of his chosen ones teach basic principles and traditions and laws of men as teachings of God in the congregations. God then would have been guilty of letting the Bible be contaminated with the laws and traditions of men being desseminated to the congregations as HIS commands.

    I would caution you to be careful, 'Pom. In your 'zeal' for Paul, and your desire to be 'right', you are attempting to misstate the FACTS of our discussion and interchange, and what I was permitted to share WITH you, by means of holy spirit. I have not faulted Paul, but explained, by means of that spirit as I received it from my Lord, what the TRUTH of the matter was... whethere you 'hear'... or you 'refrain'. But you are hearing what you wish, rather than what I was given to share... and thus, might place yourself in a position to 'sin with your mouth'. Again, I caution you.

    Paul did not teach Roman law in the Christian congregation as you teach. You have been deceived.

    You're kidding, right? Tell me, if Roman law was of no consequence, why then did my Lord even HAVE to see Pontius Pilate? Why then did Luke write both his gospel account AND the book of Acts to Theophilus, a Roman ruler who engaged Luke to do so? 'Pom, ALL true christians are subject to the laws of the land... insofar as they do not OVERSTEP the commandments of God. Women were not COMMANDED to speak; therefore, prohibiting them from doing so... for the safety of the congregation is not 'teaching Roman law in the christian congregation.' Surely, you are more intelligent than this...

    Now you bring this deception to "Adam" as God's truth and want "him" to eat.

    No, I spoke the truth, as I said... whether you hear... or you refrain.

    Sorry, not THIS "Adam."

    Indeed, and you have spoken rightly, for did you know that the name 'Adam', is actually the Hebrew word 'ad-ham' which means EARTHLING ... or 'physical' man? For my Father AND my Lord, too, are 'men'... but spiritual. With that said, I now say to YOU:

    "For who among men knows the things of a man except the
    SPIRIT of man that is in him? So, too, no one has come
    to know the things of God, except the SPIRIT of God.
    Now, WE received, NOT the spirit of the world, but the
    spirit... WHICH IS FROM GOD, that WE might know the things
    that have been kindly given US... BY God. These things
    WE speak, NOT with words taught by HUMAN wisdom (such as
    the misrendering of 'bane'), but with those taught by
    SPIRIT, as WE combine spiritual... with SPIRITUAL.

    "But... a PHYSICAL man does not RECEIVE the things of
    the spirit of God, for they are FOOLISHNESS to him; and
    he CANNOT get to know them, because they are EXAMINED...
    SPIRITUALLY. However, the SPIRITUAL man examined indeed
    ALL things, but he himself is NOT examined by ANY man.
    For "who has come to know the mind of JAH, that he may
    instruct Him?" But WE... do have the mind... of Christ."

    With all of that said, dearest 'Pom, I again wish you peace... and the 'enlightenment' that comes from the TRUE Light, my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.

    I am your servant... and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Just woman made smoke blown "wisdom."

    And.....as usual, when people are exposed in their false teaching, it's always, "the Bible is not translated correctly." There are more than a few Bible translations that translate "baneey" as "sons", besides it being a basic Hebrew contextual and primitive root argument supporting "sons."

    Go ahead, tell all the nice people these Bible translations have used the wrong rendering and you are the one that's right:

    New International Version
    King James
    New King James
    American Standard
    New American Standard
    Revised Standard

    PS. When one is evaluating how to choose the correct rendering in Hebrew, the root of the word is important in concert with the context.

    The primitive root is transliterated "bawnaw" meaning "to build."
    The "Baneey" base meaning is one who is a builder of a family name.
    For a certainty, the angels are sons as we shall be sons in building of the family name of YHWH.

    You can blow more smoke now. I'm through with the above spiritual flim flam.

    aaaa bah bye.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest 'Pom... you are free... to believe whatever you wish. I, too, took every Bible translation literally, or certain words as correct, until my Lord began speaking to me. Now, when I read the scriptures... I hear him read along WITH me... and state what was DIRECTED to be written... correctly. It is the false stylus of the copyists that have either changed words... or misrendered their meaning.

    Jeremiah 8:8

    A very GOOD example is Proverbs 8:30, where SOME Bibles misrender my Lord being a master WORKER... rather a master LEARNER, which is what a 'fosterling' is... one who is under the care and TUTELAGE of another). I came to understand this when my Lord directed me there and told me to read. I did. I read 'worker'. He said, 'Read it again.' I did. I STILL read 'worker'. Then he said, 'Read it again... and listen... to ME.' I did... and what was revealed to me BY him... totally changed the entire meaning of what is translated.

    My Lord learned ALL he knew from my Father. My Father... was the 'worker', just as my Lord said, "My FATHER keeps working...". My Lord did not start HIS work... until he came in the flesh. That is the MEANING of the prophets words, "I have COME... to do YOUR will, O God."

    But... ah, well, dear 'Pom... you go ahead. Continue putting 'your trust in earthling man'. As for me, I will trust in JAH with all MY heart, and not lean upon my OWN understanding.

    I feel quite sorry for any women that you may have in your life, 'Pom, in that you consider them irreverent, unworthy, inferior and SO insignificant that God would not speak to them by means of Christ. And yet, He DID say that He would pour out His spirit on men... AND women... and they would prophesy. How sad... for you AND for the women in your life... that you failed to 'hear'... and get the SENSE... of that. Much like the WTBTS that endeavors to 'shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men', because they believe... quite erroneously, I might add... that only THEY are 'going in'.

    Again, I bid you peace.

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Eph 5:22-33
    22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

    25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery-but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

    Col 3:18-19
    8 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

    19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

    1 Cor 11:11-12
    11 In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

    I apply the above to my wife and she applies to her what applies to her. We are beyond happy in our freedom in Christ. We have friends of both genders united in the same mind and the same line of thought.

    Save your pity. :)

  • kes152
    kes152
    The Bible also shows that Christ is resposible for the lives of the angels, making him their "father" too.

    So since God created the sun, the plants, the animals, AND EARTH that makes all of them 'sons of God' too? Fire is alive, you know that right? Ask any logical scientist. Fire is an inorganic life form.

    Makes not a bit of sense,
    Peace!
    Aaron

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    I disagree.

    Fire is power/energy.

    Life is spiritual OR cellular and procreative with seed.

    Hmmm. How bout Suns of God. :)

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    A 'funny' thing occurred for me early this morning, dear 'Pom... may you have peace.

    My Lord came to remind me of an 'occurrence' in which an angel pretty much revealed that he was NOT a son. This was the words of that angel, Michael, the angel of the ark... TO John... who fell down at his feet to worship him after he (Michael) had concluded presenting the revelation given HIM by my Lord, who received it from my Father:

    "Do NOT do that. All I am... is a fellow slave...
    OF YOU AND YOUR BROTHERS who are prophets and of those
    who are observing the word of this scroll."

    My Lord has directed me to ask YOU... why is it that Michael identified himself as a fellow slave of John... and HIS brothers, rather than "you... and OUR brothers"... if he indeed is/was a son? The word of my Lord to you, 'Pom, is that he didn't because Michael is not a son, but, as the writer of the letter to the Hebrews RIGHTLY stated:

    "With reference to the ANGLES he (God) says:
    'And he makes his angels spirits and his PUBLIC SERVANTS
    a flame of fire. But with reference to the SON:
    'God is YOUR throne forever and ever... That is why God,
    your God, anointed YOU with the oil of exultation more than
    your partners."

    The word of my Lord to you, 'Pom, is are these 'partners' angels? No, for the 'partners' of my Lord are his BROTHERS... those 'bought from among mankind' who ALSO receive an anointing with the 'oil of exultation'... and RULE WITH HIM AS KINGS.

    While angels indeed can be 'anointed', NONE of them are referred to as my Lord's brothers, nor are any granted to sit with him on his throne. ONLY his brothers are... those that are SONS... by means of an 'adoption' BACK into the Ark of the Covenant, from which they originated.

    And now I ask YOU:

    If angels are sons of God, and thus brothers of Christ, who then is THEIR 'mother'? For although the Earth has given birth to HER children, and such have become 'numerous'... the mother of my Lord and my BROTHERS... Jerusalem Above... the BARREN woman... has not yet given birth to her 'seed', her children. Revelation 12:17

    Again, believe what you 'wish' to believe, 'Pom... and as for my pity for you and your wife... you may THINK you are 'rich, and have acquired riches (including freedom) and do not need anything at all,' but I say to you once again:

    "You do not KNOW you are... BLIND."

    Why? Because 'if the SON sets you free', as he has done me, then you will truly BE free'. May I invite you, then, once again to 'buy eyesalve', both you AND your wife, and indeed, your entire household? Thus, I say to you that IF you are 'wishing' and 'thirsting' and 'hearing'... then,

    "COME! Take 'life's water'... free!"

    And if you believe that you have no NEED to wish, to thirst or to hear... then I say to you... it is YOUR choice: 'refrain'.

    My peace remains,

    A servant to and son of the Household of God, Israel, by means of a TRUE anointing with holy spirit... and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

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