Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?

by Sirona 93 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  doogie

  is he still an alcoholic?

  technically, yes, he is, because his body would still react to the alcohol differently than a "normal" person's if alcohol were reintroduced.

  What if it's genetic for me to hunt assholes down and put a bullet between their eyes? I can't help it (it's genetic), perhaps I'm "evolving" and this is how more advance creatures act... but you're all to primitive to see it because.... well you get the idea.

  that seems to be a rather condescending take on alcoholism... i'm not an alcoholic and i'm still offended by this.
• 

  LittleToe

  Doogie:

  ... i'm not an alcoholic and i'm still offended by this.

  You're not in denial, are ya?
• 

  upside/down

  i'm still offended by this.

  No offense intended at all.. I mean it (figuratively).

  This is a discussion, and that's my viewpoint.

  I haven't heard this phrase ANYWHERE in my life except from so-called "spiritual" Dubs. NO OFFENSE!

  In the real world most people don't care who's offended.... although I try not to "offend". But try and see what I meant and as I think I make a valid point. By the way I grew up with an alcoholic (violent when drank) step-father (non-Dub) and I cetainly speak from a life of experience... although I have no problem with "the juice". I could totally live without it. Although I do enjoy it.

  u/d (of the rhino skin class)
• 

  doogie

  In the real world most people don't care who's offended.... although I try not to "offend". But try and see what I meant and as I think I make a valid point.

  no, i understand it wasn't intentional (and apparently you don't really care) but your comment just seemed kind of heartless. and in my experience, people that grew up with a violent alcoholic in the family have a more difficult time viewing it as anything but a choice. some feel that to view it as a disease is to excuse the bad behavior that results. i don't look at it this way and i feel that people should be held accountable for violence/abuse even if they are somewhat handicapped by a history of alcoholism.

  if it can be shown that alcohol has different physiological effects on a person with a history of alcoholism than a person who doesn't, i fail to see how this is any different than any other genetic disease.

  LT:

  You're not in denial, are ya?

  no, no...of course not...(i'm scottish, i'm supposed to be a heavy drinker)

  (just kidding, one celt to another)
• 

  Amazing1914

  Hi u/d,

  In the real world most people don't care who's offended.... although I try not to "offend".

  I find most people actually do care, and often take steps to make amends. Some people do not care, and do nothing to sooth ruffeled feathers.

  Doogie is basically correct, in that the comparison you employed is really not relevant to alcoholism as a disease. Also, while alcoholism is a treatable disease, the consequences of alcohol abuse still requires social and civil responsibility on the part of the alcoholic.

  Example: I had a heart attack three years ago. I could not help it. I did not choose it. It was the result of my genetics. Yet, I still had to deal with the nearly $80,000 in medical bills. No one personally blamed me, but they needed to be paid for their services rendered. Likewise, Alcoholics who have caused harm, albeit not intended, still must make amends, including the possibility of jail time in some cases.

  By the way I grew up with an alcoholic (violent when drank) step-father (non-Dub) and I cetainly speak from a life of experience... although I have no problem with "the juice". I could totally live without it. Although I do enjoy it.

  I grew up with an alcoholic too. My dad and mom drank too much and in my dad's case, it caused havoc in our family. Most alcoholics feel they can "do without it" though they believe that they are just drinking socially. They do not understand the disease mechanism. People who grow up with an alcoholic parent are at great risk of having the predisposition for the disease ... and should carefully consider never drinking.

  Denial is the real enemy of alcoholics. This factor alone is why the alcoholic will suffer for years, and will cause others around them to suffer. Intervention is among the ways to get the alcoholic to see the impact of the disease, and to get them into a treatment program.

  Jim W.
• 

  kls

  Amazing 1914, you are so wise.
• 

  upside/down

  if it can be shown that alcohol has different physiological effects on a person with a history of alcoholism than a person who doesn't, i fail to see how this is any different than any other genetic disease

  They are totally different. An organic disease eminates from within the body and is self sustaining, like cancer or diabetes etc. They are not necessarily dependent on an outside catalyst. You can't walk away from or abstain from either cancer or diabetes. Alcohol is the abuse of a substance. The fact that some have a genetic leaning toward over indulgence or that it has a negative effect when imbibed by some more than others isn't in dispute.

  If a person (alcoholic) is forcibly denied alcohol... they will not get sick and die from it.

  You also can't "catch" alcoholism, like the plague or flu. It is a behavioural problem (the root), the negative effect the alcohol has on an individual is secondary and a symptom. That would be like saying that a non-alcoholic and an alcoholic are really the same thing, ones physiology just can't handle it, therefore he has a disease.... not too logical to me.

  Anyway, I mean no disrespect toward those that stumble with the "problem" of alcohol... "God" knows I have a vile problem (disease?)...

  "Hi- My name is Upside/Down.... and I choke chickens"

  u/d (of the very diseased class)
• 

  doogie

  U/D:

  i guess for this discussion to go any further, you would really need to pin down what you view as the criteria for a disease. so far i gather:

  - it must depend on an outside catalyst to survive

  - it must make you sick or kill you (apparently without an outside catalyst)

  - it must communicable

  is this correct? because i'm sure we could come up with scores of diseases that are commonly understood to be "diseases" that do not fit this criteria.

  edited to add:

  Alcohol is the abuse of a substance.

  i assume you mean alcoholism. from what i understand, alcohol abuse is the abuse of a substance. alcoholism refers to the body's reaction to ANY alcohol.
• 

  kls

  If a person (alcoholic) is forcibly denied alcohol... they will not get sick and die from it

  UD ,have you ever seen a alcoholic who has been denied alcoholic? Last week a friend just died who was a alcoholic ,he was feeling really sick and had stopped drinking because he felt so sick. He had stopped for 3 weeks and went through horrible withdrawel and was found dead .

  The cause of death was do to his drinking and the withdrawl that his body had endured.
• 

  Amazing1914

  u/d,

  You also can't "catch" alcoholism, like the plague or flu. It is a behavioural problem (the root), the negative effect the alcohol has on an individual is secondary and a symptom.

  Alcoholism is not just a behavoural problem. A person can become an alcoholic by drinking too much for a long time, even if he/she does not have a genetic predisposition. Alcoholism is a proven disease. It has both physical and mental characteristics.

  As for "catching" diseases like the flu, many diseases are indigenous to one's body, such as heart disease, cancer, etc. Likewise, alcoholism is a physical disease that requires treatment. Depression is a disease, and likewise requires both medical and theraputic treatment.

  That would be like saying that a non-alcoholic and an alcoholic are really the same thing, ones physiology just can't handle it, therefore he has a disease.... not too logical to me.

  This is actually very logical. People with a predisposition to heart disease can't handle high cholosterol diets. It will clog their arteries more so than people who do not have a genetic predisposition. Like and alcoholic, a person can have heart disease and not know it.

  The big difference is that people with other diseases merit our sympathy and love. Whereas alcoholics piss us off, so we tend to minimize their disease and see them through the eyes of judgmentalism.

  Jim W.