Do those that shun us not love us? (page 4)

blondie

My father told us he loved us when he sexually abused me and my silbings. I think in some sick way he truly believed that and still does. But that doesn't change the fact that his love hurt us. He was and still is a danger to us and others with his misbegotten love.

I have forgiven my father and part of me still hopes that he will change. But that does not mean I don't see the danger his type of love holds for those he gets near.

Misguided, well-intentioned though they be, JWs who follow WTS policy harm more than they help. And I do believe that some individual JWs use the organization-sanctioned policy of disfellowshipping to be unkind to DF'd JWs they never liked.

Yes, feel pity for those still stuck and remember when you were stuck in darkness. But never lose sight of the harm and hurt and danger of believing that abuse equals love.

Blondie

outoftheorg

Wow I am surprised at the shortsided arrogance of some.

Outoftheorg

logansrun

Blondie,

Do you really think that child molestation is a fair analogy to simply refusing to speak with someone?

silentWatcher

logansrun,

I knew you were going to being parent disciplining child up. There are non-abusive ways to discipline a child. Shunning is abusive. Abusing someone is always wrong. At least I feel that way. It's okay that you don't. I guess beating a child to the point of hospitalization is love in your world-view as well. Do those that beat you not love you? whatever.

Second, it's not comparing apples and oranges to being. It's called reducto absurdium (spelling) -- reduction to the absurd. It's useful for showing fallacies in a line of reasoning.

love11

I think the WTS are the ones that shun, and the jw's follow their orders.

Because to them it means life and death to follow the orders of ~~Jehovah~~ WT. They feel that they are going to be punished by their creator if they talk to a disfellowshipped person. That fear is so strong that they will give up family and friends to save their own "after life". I think the ones that really "love" you are torn on what to do because they don't want to displease the ALMIGHTY ~~GOD~~ WT.

It reminds me of that saying you always here battered women say-

"He loves me.... in his own way".

Lady Lee

Right on Blondie

It is sick. But then so is the system that controls them.

Years ago I ran into the wife of one of the elders on my judicail committee. Her husband had recently died. I felt that he had not wanted to be so harsh and his manner with me was gentle even at that difficult time.

I wanted to cinvey my condolences but there we were in the middle of a store and I knew she would be uncomfortable if I said something.

So I stood across a bin and offered my condolences in a manner that if someone saw us they would not think she was breaking the rules and speaking to a DFed person. I looked her in the eye and saw something I had never seen in a JW before that. In a moment she turned into a small child and whispered her thanks.

We had a very long history together and I very much looked up to this woman. But to see how the mind control turned a mature woman into a small child with fear in her eyes of being caught and gratitude for my few words was something I will never forget.

Not all are like that. But some, possible many. My heart goes out to those who feel so trapped and burdened by the rigid, controling rules of men.

garybuss

Just to clear up my own doubts as to what the Watch Tower says about the hate directed at me by the Jehovah's Witness people I looked up this collection of quotes I had saved.

"THE GODLY QUALITY OF HATE"
(The Watchtower, July 15, 1974, p. 442)
· "You have seen the benefit of godly love, but do you know how to hate? ? These very strong words are an expression of godly hate, (small "g" god theirs) and you too must have this quality to be pleasing to God. Hate causes a feeling of disgust to well up inside you. You loathe, abhor, despise the object of your hatred. Godly hatred never has as its object our Christian brothers, no matter how imperfect"
(The Watchtower; July 15, 1974 p.442)

· "Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah's organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True Christians share Jehovah's feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they 'feel a loathing' toward those who have made themselves God's enemies,?"
(The Watchtower October 1, 1993 p.19)

· "Jehovah's Witnesses Make Hate A Religion" (Saturday Evening Post Sept. 14, 1940 p.18)

· "WILL HATRED EVER END" "And even though it may be unreasonable, or 'crazy,' the hatred is often directed against a whole group" (The Watchtower June 15, 1995 p.3)

· "The doctrines of the Roman Catholic 'Hierarchy of Jurisdiction' and the pratices in which that organization indulges show that she is the chief servant of the Devil and the arch enemy of God."?"From all the evidence the conclusion is irresistible that the Roman Catholic Hierarchy organization serves the Devil and is therefore the enemy of God, the enemy of man, and the very personification of unrighteousness." (Enemies WTB&TS 1937 J.F. Rutherford p.286)

· "CATHOLIC RELIGION DEMONISM" (Religion, WTB&TS 1940, J.F. Rutherford, p.55)

· "Martyred by martyrs, Dennis Ryan's head was bashed by Witnesses' canes in a riot at their (Witnesses') anti-Catholic rally." (Caption under photo of battered Ryan with bandaged head)
(Saturday Evening Post Sept. 14, 1940)

· "There is a difference, however between hating the wrong and hating the person who commits the wrong."
(The Watchtower, June 15, 1995, p.7)

· "?in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked?.Jesus did not mean for us to love the hardened enemies of Jehovah,"
(The Watchtower July, 15, 1961, p.420)

· "We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as lothsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not fit to live on his beautiful earth."

· 12 "What do you do with anything loathsome or repugnant that you detest and abhor? The answer is simple. You get away from it or remove it from your presence. You do not want to have anything at all to do with it. This must be exactly our attitude toward the haters of Jehovah."
(The Watchtower October 1, 1952, p.599)

· "Yes, the international society of Jehovah's Witnesses is living proof that hatred can be abolished." "It is a foreglimpse of a worldwide program to eliminate hatred and it's causes."
(The Watchtower, June 15, 1995, p.8)

· "More than that, we want to hate those who willfully show themselves haters of Jehovah, haters of what is good."
(The Watchtower June 15, 1980, p.8)

· "Obviously God hates evil things, and his servants rightly hate them too."
(Awake June 22, 1984, p.5)

Lady Lee

Let me make this clear. I do not think shunning is OK.

All I am saying is I understand it

Satanus

I think that it is a matter of accountability. If you shun your friend for two yrs, even though you feel for him, when that two yrs is up, he isn't obligated to instantly accept you as a friend again, and resume where you left off. You guys start over, possibly from the beginning. It's possible that you would be friends again, but not necesarily. If my jw xfriends or jw family stop being dubs and want to resume w me, we will start from there, not where from ten yrs ago, or whatever.

S

blondie

Yes, I do or why would I have used the analogy. Having experienced both situations, I feel qualified to make the comparison.

The WTS has many times said that if a person had committed the same sins in the nation of Israel that would have been put to death, not disfellowshipped and shunned. So treating someone as if they were a dead person, is pretty severe. To take emotionally harmful behavior such as shunning and call it love, creates much the same confusion in the df'd person as a child who is confused about their treatment from the molester, most often someone they love and expected safe love and comfort from.

I don't expect you to agree with me, logansrun.

Blondie

Do those that shun us not love us?

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