by TheListener 14 Replies latest watchtower bible
Same deal with confessing our sinsTM to the eldersTM.
Are the elders kinda like a confessional without the booth?
What's with that?
As far as I'm concerned, the elders just want people to confess to them so they can crucify you for your "perceived wrongdoing" ... damn judges ...looking at your straw while ignoring their own rafter ...
People are waaaaaaay better off without religion, I say...
Love
ESTEE
I was more interested in the fact that Stephen asked Jesus to receive his spirit [pneuma]. If Stephen understood that his spirit would be extinguished upon death and be in a sleeplike state why would he say that?
Yeah, on this issue I think the WT is plain wrong, for disregarding the overwhelming evidence that nearly all sections of 1st-century Judaism (except the Sadducees) actually believed in some form of survival of the soul and immediate blessing for the righteous (notwithstanding a later resurrection). As far as Luke-Acts is concerned, the situation of Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham (Luke 16), or the promise to the crucified "robber" to be with Christ in Paradise "today" (23:43), point to the same direction. Philippians 1:21ff is another good example of the author's expectation of an immediate "being with Christ".
Thank you Narkissos. That is the information I was looking for. I don't know what happens when we die, and I am sure the WT doesn't either. It appears to me, from actually reading the bible, that the first century christians felt they'd be with Jesus right away after death.
Of course, we all know that the new testament was written only for the 144,000!
The bible is kinda confusing as to when the resurrection would take place because of scripture like that one . Jesus himself was quoted at the time of his death as saying " father into your hands I entrust my spirit " even tho he knew he would not be resurrected until the third day . So what stephen said does not imply an immediate resurrection . The jews and the christians were aware that there was a specific time when the dead would be resurrected even tho the early church believed they were living in the last days . Of course even the WTBTS admits that judgement day can be an undetermined length of time . As far as praying to jesus it may not even matter since jesus was appointed over all things in heaven and earth before his assention .
Good point heathen. I reviewed the scriptures to see if I could find anything. Remember I'm pretty new at this. Before I would search the Cd Rom or bound index and parrot the WTS; this time this wacky reasoning is all mine baby.
My only thought is that when Jesus was dying he asked God he said "Father into your hands I commend my spirit" (Luke 23:46)- Greek word for commend is "paratithemi" #3908. It seems to mean: to place beside, or before; to intrust, commit to one's charge.
But, Stephen, in Acts 7:59 said "Lord Jesus receive my spirit". Greek word for receive is "dechomai"#1209. It seems to mean: to take with the hand; to take hold of; to take up, receive.
Perhaps Jesus knew he would be "gone" for a period 3 days so he used the correct word to show that. Perhaps Stephen expected to immediately be united with Jesus so he used the correct word for that?
This is fun. I may not be right, but I like reviewing and discussing.
