"Theocratic Warfare" - An Apostate Strategy?

by slimboyfat 61 Replies latest jw friends

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  jaffacake

  Frankie, What sort of court cases?

  Check Your Premises, It is a 40-page word document that contains many watchtower and Bible quotations as well as personal stuff about my background and many, many questions. Some of my questions seek confirmation about the meaning and validity of Watchtower quotes. Too bulky to post here. It was written after only 2 months of studying Bible & JWs so I dont think it is as effective as it might have been. I would be happy to email it to you in case you can offer any suggested improvements. Some of it contains my initial conclusions on some issues and invites correction.

  SlimBoyFat, I would like you to have a go at responding to my document, but it is too big to post here, and you no doubt wish to remain anonymous. I doubt you would be willing to pm me with an email address. I promise to keep it confidential and delete as soon as I have used it. I would expect you to respect my confidentiality too, as there is some personal stuff about me in it.
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  jaffacake

  Check Your Premises,

  The first question was a simple enough one:

  My First Question

  With so many world wide religions, including many Christians, how and why was the Bible Students and Watchtower Society set up in the first place?
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  diamondblue1974

  SBF

  Yet again another generalist thread without so much of a substantiation; tell us again why you dont class yourself as an apostate? because I dont believe you have ever answered this question properly unless ive missed it on your usual insightful threads.

  DB74
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  frankiespeakin

  Jaff,

  Frankie, What sort of court cases?

  Here one:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/91067/1.ashx
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  FairMind

  But to be evasive with a person, who only seeks to serve God, and who is therefore trying to determine if the jw is in fact God's organization, is frankly despicable

  I agree with the above statement. As an active JW, Elders have lied to me and given non-truthful answers. This was not theocratic warfare but lying to avoid admitting to slander, the revealing of confidential matters and to protect the guilty. This does not mean that I believe it is a sin to avoid telling the truth in some situations (would not that be unreasonable?).
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  love2Bworldly

  "...taken out out context". We so-called apostates are being condemned for taking things out of context. The Watchtower takes the Bible out of context to try to prove their false teachings and it often works on people who have no previous knowledge of the Bible. It's very funny that the WBTS has often said that people who study the Bible on their own often revert back to the teachings of Babylon the Great; 'thinking persons' such as myself think that maybe it's because the Watchtower teachings are a load of hogwash.
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  Honesty

  Hello again, SBF,

  You are a victim of Theocratic Warfare tactics employed by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. I will give you one example from the 2/15/05 WT Study article intitled "Safeguarding Our Christian Identity".

  Tell me, please how is paragraph 14 not an example of WT theocratic warfare when they say Pharoah did not believe Moses was speaking on Jehovah's behalf. Look at all the accounts in Exodus where Pharoah asks Moses to speak to Jehovah on behalf of Pharoah and remove plagues visited on the Egyptians by Jehovah. Since they quote no scriptures or other WT publications to support their statement and the bible proves that they have lied to you in order to keep you deceived that all opposers are evil and not to be listened to you are a victim of the WTBTS.
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  Gill

  We do not lie! We do not lie! We do not lie! We do not lie! ........

  Say it enough times and eventually someone will believe you even if you're lying through your teeth.

  I was brought up a JW and I knew it was allright to lie so as not to bring any defamation on 'Jehovah's' name or rather any chance of scandal against the WTBTS in which they might have to part with their real God - MONEY!

  The cases of child sexual abuse, prove that the WTBTS encourages it's elders to LIE. It proves it.

  Their elders meetings in which they give verbal instructions that do not go down in writing prove that they lie.

  The way any JW will twist and turn if you catch them on a piece of historical doctrine, proves that they encourage lying.

  Their 'New Light' theology, proves that they lie.

  Their main 'Theocratic Warfare' is aimed at not being prosecuted and having financial penalties put upon them.

  I've been in countries where the preaching of JWs is banned and seen the underground system they 'have' to survive under. It's completely different to their 'Theocratic Warfare' against being financially entrapped.

  As a JW I and I know all my relatives and friends knew it was all right to lie. It just is. Because that's what you learn from being a JW, to be deceitful, lie, not to give out truths and information. Even down to seattleniceguy's thread on not being informed when friends and relatives who are JWs die. Don't say anything and don't be afraid to lie. Only JWs deserve the truth....apparantly.
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  slimboyfat

  SNG,

  Jehovah's Witnesses sing the song about 'loyal submission' in which the old-fashioned phrase 'theocratic warfare' occurs, but the point is that they clearly and simply DO NOT attach the same meaning to it as apostates have deceivingly claimed. Some apostates, like Bergman, have made their reputation on slinging out this falsehood about 'theocratic warfare' being a 'license to lie' to willing JW-haters who love to lap it up. It is dishonest and everyone should disown it.

  Do Jehovah's Witnesses now believe that all non-Witnesses will die at Armageddon? This is not clear. Since the goats change in 1995, Witnesses have promoted strongly the idea that Jesus will make the final judgement and that Witnesses cannot be sure who will be saved and who will not. Back in an old question from readers (maybe from the 1960s, or thereabouts) there was actually a statement that non-Witnesses who have not heard Jehovah's Witnesses' message may be saved. I know that more recent statements in the 1980s said bluntly that you need to be in the 'ark' (orgnaisation) to be saved, but even these are not unequivocal, since it seems aimed at people who have heard about the Witness message but have not fully responded by becoming active Witnesses. Such statements never also stated, as far as I am aware, that all non-Witnesses will be killed - even those who have never been given the opportunity to respond. So Witnesses are not being as dupicitous as apostates commonly claim when they supposedly fail to explain to outsiders that they expect absolutely all non-Witnesses to die in God's judgement. Is an apostate being any more truthfull when he says that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that all non-Witnesses will die? I am not so sure. Both parties present the issue in the way that puts their own point of view (pro- or anti-Witness) in the best light. This "theocratic warfare" strategy that apostates engage in against Jehovah's Witnesses is a travesty because, all things considered, Jehovah's Witnesses are on the whole remarkably honest people. Apostates do their cause no good by trying to distort these matters. Indeed, Bergman's testimony on this 'doctrine' has rightly been thrown out of court. When apostates make up such obviously facile complaints against the Witnesses as this so-called 'doctrine', they should not be surprised that they find it hard to get a proper hearing from society when they have areas of geniune complaint!
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  hillary_step

  Slimfatboy,

  Jehovah's Witnesses sing the song about 'loyal submission' in which the old-fashioned phrase 'theocratic warfare' occurs, but the point is that they clearly and simply DO NOT attach the same meaning to it as apostates have deceivingly claimed. Some apostates, like Bergman, have made their reputation on slinging out this falsehood about 'theocratic warfare' being a 'license to lie' to willing JW-haters who love to lap it up. It is dishonest and everyone should disown it.

  I gave you two instances above of documented lying by Jehovah's Witness, one vehicle for untruth actually being part of WTS policy in the courts. I would be pleased if you would deal with the implications of these examples as they have a bearing on the point of your thread.

  HS