Had study with witness today

by jaffacake 37 Replies latest jw friends

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  jaffacake

  Today was probably about our seventh meeting. He never got a quarter way through his agenda because of my questions & digressions. I kept an open mind on doctrines. We started with 144,000 & faithful & discreet slave. I asked why the religion I was brought up in, as well as many other Christians, have a better record of world wide translating & preaching of scriptures to the ends of the earth than JWs. JW gospel preaching represents less than half of one percent of Christian missionary & gospel work. JWs have only translated scriptures into a tiny fraction of the worlds languages compared with other Christian groups, and have only succeeded in locations where they have followed in the path of other Christians. So how do I know JWs are Gods only appointed 'slave'?

  We got onto Romans 13 and I asked how come my old religion, most other Christian groups, and the original watchtower Bible students, always understood Romans 13 correctly. It was Rutherford who got new light in 1929 and changed the doctrine, which cost decades of JWs to spend years in prisons, only for a flash of new light in 1962 which recognised that the other Christians had been right all along, as had the witnesses who left the watchtower for this erroneous change in 1929. Yet another example of people either leaving or being disfellowshiped for understanding the truth of the Bible.

  I was astonished when he admitted openly to me the the FDS of Jehovahs Witnesses DO NOT get any information from God at all. They just do their best to discern correct understanding of the Bible, like other well meaning Christians, but he said JWs are better at it because Jehovah has blessed them. I thought to myself 'they evidntly are not better at it' and I couldnt help asking why for 33 years (1929 to 1962) Jehovah blessed other Christians with a better understanding of Romans 13, at great personal cost to many JWs. I wonder, was it because Christians were following the Bible whilst the watchtower engaged in creature worship (of Rutherford)?
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  kls

  They just do their best to discern correct understanding of the Bible, like other well meaning Christians, but he said JWs are better at it because Jehovah has blessed them.

  Oh please ,oh gag JAFFACAKE
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  Undecided

  Can't remember what changed in 1929 by Rutherford. Don't remember the new light in 1962 either. I'm getting brain dead in my old age.

  Ken P.
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  blondie

  I don't remember the new light on the superior authorities in 1929 but I do remember when the WT came out in 1962 changing it back to the secular authorities from Jehovah and Jesus.. My JW family all got together to study it because they did remember when it changed in 1929. My Bible Student grandparents had not been too sure of the change in 1929; they still believed what CTR taught that the secular authorities were the superior authorities but then they drifted and missed becoming JWs.

  Blondie
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  jaffacake

  Ken P

  The key issue was that of alternative service. The majority of the Gov body knew this was wrong for years, but they couldnt get a two thirds majority to change it, therefore many more JW family lives were ruined in some countries. The two thirsd majority was eventually described as a flash of new light. I have the watchtower articles.

  WT 1 December 1981 page 29

  Happily, in the year 1962, Jehovah led his people to an understanding of the principle of relative subjection. It was seen that dedicated Christians must obey secular rulers as the "superior authorities," gladly recognizing these as ?god's ministers,? or servant for their good. ((Rom. 13:4) However, if these ?authorities? ask them to violate God's laws, what then? Up to that point Christians have obeyed the command at Romans 13:1: Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities. But this is qualified by Jesus' words, as recorded at Matthew 22:21: "Pay back, therefore, Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God." So whenever ?Caesar? asks Christians to do things contrary to God's will, they must place Jehovah's law ahead of ?Caesar's.

  The Watch Tower, July 15, 1916 , CT Russell wrote in the article, Militarism and Conscience:
  While Christians are enjoined to be subject to the 'Powers that be'?the kings, governors, magistrates, etc. - nevertheless this is not to be understood as meaning the renouncement of our fidelity to the King of kings and Lord of lords. He is our Over-Lord. Our allegiance to earthly lords and powers and their commands is merely to the extent that they do not conflict with the commands of our Over-Lord. The Jews in renouncing Jesus cried, 'We have no king but Caesar! The Christian's position is, 'Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's but unto God the things that are God's.' Whenever Caesar and his laws conflict with the divine requirements, all true soldiers of the cross are left no alternative.
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  95stormfront

  They just do their best to discern correct understanding of the Bible, like other well meaning Christians, but he said JWs are better at it because Jehovah has blessed them.

  You know.......you could've announced a "vomit" alert before you posted that.....

  ****walks away wiping vomit from mouth****
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  jaffacake

  I don't remember the new light on the superior authorities in 1929

  Thats cos youre too young

  My source is ISoCF by R Franz: page 483 which says ...the watchtower stated categorically (in 1929) that the higher powers were God & Christ, and that the higher powers had no application whatsoever to secular authorities.

  See book : JWs in the Divine Purpose pages 91 and 124 for this view as late as 1959.
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  vitty

  Hes going to start dreading comming to you, keep it up

  It wont be long before he wants to finish this study before you do.

  Dont let him off the hook too soon or too easily will you. Oh and well done !
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  talesin

  Every day that I read this DB, I find a new hero. Just us ordinary folks, doing extraordinary things.

  You are my hero today. Well done!

  `There is no need to do great things, just small things in a great way.`

  -- Mother Teresa

  t
• 

  stevenyc

  I was astonished when he admitted openly to me the the FDS of Jehovahs Witnesses DO NOT get any information from God at all. They just do their best to discern correct understanding of the Bible, like other well meaning Christians, but he said JWs are better at it because Jehovah has blessed them.

  Here some info you should bive the study next time.

  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7831/inspired.html

  But the Watchtower magazine of 4-1-72 p.197 had THIS to say about the organization as being God's prophet:

  They shall know that A PROPHET WAS AMONG THEM
  "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help people, , to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
  This "prophet" was not one man, but a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today, they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses."

  How Jehovah's prophecies are made:
  "The source of all true prophecy is Jehovah God. He transmits it by means of his holy spirit or. occasionally, by spirit-directed angelic messengers."
  - Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 1, 1988, p.691

  "What is here meant by the word "inspired?" It means that God, the Creator of heaven and earth, moved these men by his spirit or invisible empowering force, putting into their minds what they should write down as his "word," or message, for mankind."
  - Good News to Make You Happy, 1976, p.14

  "Who is Ezekiel's present-day counterpart, whose message and conduct correspond with that of that ancient prophet of Jehovah? It is, not one person's body, but a composite body, made up of many members. All these members were together to do the will of Jehovah, who is the Creator of this modern "Ezekiel." Who, then, are the group of persons who, toward the beginning of this "time of the end" were commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah? Jehovah has found and commissioned his modern-day Ezekiel. It is a composite Ezekiel. It is composed of those dedicated, baptized proclaimers of God's kingdom, who have been anointed with His spirit for their work. It was most fitting that they embraced the distinguishing name Jehovah's witnesses."
  - The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah, 1971, pp. 58,66

  "A "prophet to the nations" is what Jehovah made him (Jeremiah). Now today, if anything, there needs to be a "prophet to the nations." Jehovah has considerately raised up his "prophet to the nations." Jehovah has done this during the "time of the end." The "prophet" whom Jehovah has raised up has been not an individual man as in the case of Jeremiah, but a class. At this late date there is a mere remnant of this "prophet" class yet on earth. - WT 10-1-82 pp. 26,27

  "Today, God does not speak to his servants directly as he did to Job. Instead, he reproves them by means of his Word and his spirit-directed organization." - WT 6-1-93 p.21

  steve