Transference of delusions

by Satanus 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Transference of delusional feelings/beliefs. The danger of destroying delusions. This has been mentioned before, and i think it's worthwhile to have it's own thread. It could help some to identify the syndrome and disarm it.

    You can deprogram all of the wt false beliefs, but sometimes the fears, hates and distrusts are transfered to new objects. For instance, the fear of the great trib/armageddon/vengeful judging god/satan. Even though belief in these myths are deconstructed, an excultist can still often get the feeling of impending doom of some kind. Perhaps he/she feels sure that some health disaster is immanent. National/world/personal economic collapse is another example.

    Are there any who have recognised this type of thing and become free of it?

    S

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    excellent thought satanus,


    i have recognized it too. but i am still working on over coming it. it is harder to overcome than cognitive dissonance, like you say. my thing is the thought of environmental disaster and war with china over oil. there is a real danger, of course, but probably not like i make it out to be in my mind.


    i think it is also, like you say, systemic to having been programmed in a cult. but this is more of an emotional issue, than an intellectual one, right? so, if that is the case, then it is about healing. IMO, the healing is about coming to love yourself, as a person who has overcome a lot and is still alive and around to talk about it. but even more so, and this is all new to me (no expert), like another thread by James Thomas this evening is discussing: it is about learning to appriciate the now. this moment. no past, no future. experience the life around you without being judgemental about it. sit back and live right in the moment. i don't think that one stops being aware of problems and issues, but that we remember that this is an internal issue (impending doom of some sort). so it's about treating yourself. treating yourself to relishing the moment and learning to love it and live in it. in the cult, we were trained to live in the future and hate the now. but it's the now that heals, in my opinion.


    my little personal rant about how i am trying to heal myself of this emotional issue.

  • Markfromcali
    Markfromcali

    Sure, I can see that happening with other emotions too.

    This just goes to show though that it isn't just a matter of what you think, often it seems the exJWer only deals with this level and no real change has happend. Not only that, you got some people who have had some glimpse of this and then that understanding gets turned into a thought, but that's essentially the same thing as any other thought or belief. It does you no good to adopt this understanding as a philosophy, as far as actually being free is concerned.

    Basically, even if you are able to identify some kind of thought which makes the other delusions hang together, (think the rug in The Big Lebowski) if you see through that and subsequently gets rid of that whole structure built around it, there is a good chance but still no guarantee that you will see through the thinking mind itself. You will have seen through this big elaborate story, but that tendancy to build such structures, (and again we are not talking thoughts here) whether it's an emotional dynamic or whatever, may still be there.

    Looked at another way, it's not that there is a transference per se but rather the delusion just changed form. Whatever form it takes though, it is always "me." But that me doesn't see that, it can't. It may develop a certain degree of intellectual sophistication, even emotional maturity, but it's essential nature stays the same. Any effort it makes to get over this kind of stuff will just be an adaptation, perhaps having certain experiences and then forming/accepting a certain kind of intellectual understanding of such.

    And this is kind of where the danger of destroying delusions come in, because essentially that me is destroyed. Of course it just means that the delusion is seen as such, but from that egoic perspective it is a big deal. ('I'm being destroyed!' vs. '... well that was silly.') And really it's not so much that there is some kind of devastating violent thing, but if someone is not ready for it then there might be a lack of psychological coherence which is of course necessary to function as a human being. So when you get to the root of it it isn't emotional in nature, emotions is just a manifestation of it.

    What I say is probably not that useful if you want to just not have the fear or whatever feeling, I don't know how you might manage it without actually uprooting the whole thing thoroughly. The trick is of course to do it while still keeping a functional psyche, you're just not under the impression you are the psyche. In the beginning when you let go enough you may notice all kinds of conditioning come up, but that's not necessarily an indication of whether you are letting go. You can have all of it still there but just come to recognize that it doesn't matter, but then of course there is obviously something that is free from it all.

  • skyman
    skyman

    Transference of delusional comes to play for me at night when I dream. I plead my case to my brother and some times to the Elders that was on my Judicial meeting other than that no. I never really believed that Jehovah would destroy the earth as FDS says. So I never have feared a rmageddon and I always knew that Jehovah was not mean but is loving so he had to love all of us even the people I thought had been mislead by Satan. Now after I have looked at the bible and all the other truths out in the big world I don't believe the bible is true all the time. So many other information that contradicts the bible is out there. So I don't have Transference of delusion other than my dreams.

  • trevor
    trevor

    Satanus

    Even though belief in these myths are deconstructed, an excultist can still often get the feeling of impending doom of some kind. Perhaps he/she feels sure that some health disaster is immanent. National/world/personal economic collapse is another example.

    This is very true and it was my own experience for many years after leaving the Jehovahs Witnesses that I thought we were on the verge of a financial world meltdown. This fear is exploited by many financial advisers offering secret advice on how to escape ruin. In the impending disaster. The problem is that the possibility of a financial collapse in major world markets remains. Look at the falling dollar and the rise of the Euro and the debt mountain?

    Nurse - Screens!

  • avengers
    avengers
    I always knew that Jehovah was not mean but is loving

    That's a delusion rightthere. I cannot prove that a God does or does not exist.
    Anyone care to prove it? That people say (if one takes He exists) He's loving; it cannot be so.
    A loving person takes care of another person. Yet when I see "His" "Creation" I see
    suffering. Little kids suffering gets me the most. I sit and shudder to think that someone loving
    could let this be.

    According to me Jehovah is a delusion. The fact that He's supposed to be loving is even a greater delusion.

    The danger of destroying delusions.

    Some should be destroyed, like the one above.
    Should another take it's place?

    I personally don't think so.

    But how do things really work?

    Andy

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan
    National/world/personal economic collapse is another example

    I don't think those are unrealistic fears, nor that of environmental collapse, nuclear war, on and on. It was fears of this sort that attracted me to JW's, and now that I've left, the fears remain. I've managed to develop more of a sense of humor and perspective over the past few years, but I still get pretty depressed over the news sometimes.

    I guess if I'm to believe the hypothesis that fear of death is the root of all human ambition, then I should be the most ambitious person in the world LOL

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    It was extremely difficult for me to deviate from my parent's delusions. Delusions like their belief in an imminent impending doom, a cruel punishing deity, and acceptance of spirit channelers. For me, living in a family where it wasn't safe to challenge the parents in any way, made it very hard to separate the beliefs from the parents.

    When I was away from my parents I protected their delusions. To protect those delusions, I had to, on some level, accept them myself. I had loyalty to my parents confused with loyalty to their error. I actually had to confront my parents to get the mental freedom to challenge my own core beliefs in a rational way.

    When my parents could see I was unquestionably deviating from their opinions, they rejected me immediately. It was discouraging but not as discouraging as trying to protect those delusions and trying to run my life with them.

    My brain needed a good housecleaning. It was like my basement storage room, full of a lot of useless junk. It's hard to challenge a fantasy like living forever, when I believe it's not okay to challenge the fantasy.

    Great thread! Thanks for putting it up. I enjoy your posts Satanus.


  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    My transformation had mostly occured before I finally left the WTS.
    It was harrowing, but quick and painful, like my exit.
    During that time I wrote poetry as a means of release, one piece being later posted here:
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/27/14988/1.ashx

    I dropped my former life like a shroud and rose like a phoenix from the ashes.
    I'm well aware that for others it can be a long drawn out process, though.

    I continue to evolve, both in my understanding and means of expressing what I truly mean, but the inner turmoil has long since vanished as I simply "be".

  • JAVA
    JAVA
    It's hard to challenge a fantasy like living forever, when I believe it's not okay to challenge the fantasy.


    Gary -- I really thought I was not going to grow old in this system of things, and would live forever. Challenging that delusion after exiting the Tower took a long time. The delusion that God has one correct religion, and it was important to find it, was another. I still remember attending a few churches and thinking this one's not correct because they use a cross. Talk about transference . . .

    I've done a good deal of reading after leaving the Tower, and that's helped me deal with most of the Watchtower garbage that follows former members. Internet forums like this is a great service to newer ones leaving. That wasn't around when Gary and I left, and I think it's a blessing beyond words. Time is another factor in working through delusions. When looking into the mirror it's impossible to continue the delusions I won't grow old in this system of things. :)

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