I dropped my former life like a shroud and rose like a phoenix from the ashes.
LT, beautifully put. I've just decided that that is what I'm going to do!
Sirona
Transference of delusions
by Satanus 21 Replies latest jw friends
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Sirona
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greendawn
The WTS is very good at introducing ideas directly into the subconscious mind bypassing people's awareness and depriving them of the possibility to objectively evaluate them.
When later we want to delete these ideas we need to bring them up to consciousness to alter and destroy them and the negative emotional energies associated with them and if this is not done in a complete way something can continue to remain in the subconscious and poison our mood.
What were the silent assumptions contained in the WTS ideology that got away from our detection and evaluation? If we get rid of them entirely then we get rid of all their poisonous influences. -
Narkissos
One of the problems, imho, is that "delusions" often match (and further) definite structural needs, wants, weaknesses, flaws, etc. Restructuration is a very slow and mostly unconscious process, whereas we can change delusions almost instantly provided the former and the new play a similar function within our mental structure.
Back to your example, why the need for eschatological thinking (as illustrated by Jewish prophetism, Jewish and Christian apocalypticism long before adventist sects, but also political millenarism or catastrophism)? I think one pretty common type of mental construct (perhaps especially male) just can't stand the thought of duration. This is the type which gets bored to death in times of peace and wealth, hates to plan for a predictable future, but starts really living in a situation of emergency or immediate danger (either collective such as war or disaster, or individual such as sickness or economical distress) and will unconsciously work at bringing crises about when crises are missing. This is the well-known syndrom of the pyromaniac fireman -- a type especially harmful in situation of political or religious authority, but actually very common, and to whom the delusion of impending disaster is the cheapest (but unsatisfying in the long run) way of dealing with stable life. Most so-called prophets or heroes, I think, are of this type -- they might have become highly destructive in different circumstances.
If any society wants to outgrow delusions it will have to make reality less boring.
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garybuss
Great line Greendawn,
"What were the silent assumptions contained in the WTS ideology that got away from our detection and evaluation? If we get rid of them entirely then we get rid of all their poisonous influences."
Without the assumptions, fantasy won't play out in the human mind. Without the assumptions, religion won't work. Without the assumptions, superstition won't work. Without the assumptions, magical thinking won't work.
I listed all my assumptions I could identify and I challenged them all. None of them survived. About all I kept of what I was taught at home, in school, and at the Kingdom Hall, was the multiplication tables.
We need to set up a voluntary class. Call it assumptions 101. -
Satanus
Good observations. They help me to be able to see mine more clearly. I find that starving the delusions cuts them down. For instance, as far as the mental belief that the world will melt down somehow, i don't read or listen to news, prognostications, prognosticators, etc. Bad news has been circulating since the beginning of the roman empire, at the least, and will continue to be produced for centuries.
As well, confronting/challenging the delusion directly lets out a lot of it's air. I suppose that disposing of the ego entirely would be getting at the root. But that seems a feat rarely accomplished.
Talking to a 12 stepper ( an ex-alchaholic, ex-coke addict) he advocated the powerlessness declaration, together w the turning over of control of my life to a higher power. He said that the higher power could be anything, even something of no power. There is no doubt that this works for many.
I realised that, as a jw, i had done this, the higher powers being jehovah, satan, the wt society, the elders, etc. Further, it seemed delusional. Perhaps the 12 step system replaced one delusion (or a bunch of them) w another delusion, a harmless one. Fight delusions w delusions. Oh, my head hurts. Gotta eat some ice cream, now.
S
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Satanus
I think markfromcali's point was good, that the emotions are not the delusion, merely products of it. They show that it is still there.
S
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Markfromcali
S, I would emphasize though that emotion in itself does not measure how deeply you are immersed in it. Regardless of the particular emotion involved, if you pay close attention you can distinguish between when you are totally identified, when it hits close to home, that gripping feeling, and when it is essentially hollow and empty. I think this is very important because that old judgemental mind might automatically assume an emotional reaction as the first, whereas when it is seen through there may still be emotional artifact but it essentially has no power anymore.
It's like the energetic tendency to accumulate in that particular structural pattern is still there, but the identification is no longer there. In my own experience it was interesting as the particular insight was that there is no ego, not as an actual entity, but if anything just in the verbal sense of being an activity. After that time there was still this tendency to reassemble, but there was just a deeper part that just didn't buy it. Regardless of the intensity of the emotion it just had a different quality to it. And I will say that even if you forget, from what I have seen that doesn't really matter. The thing is to think there is a problem is itself a delusion, because that implies the belief that there's this egoic entity. The movement back toward the same pattern does not become ego until there is the actual identification, which could just be the belief in it instead of a thought regarding yourself.
The classical pattern of spiritual awakening helps shed some light on this process, because essentially it is a movement away from your body and conditioned existence, so it's a matter of being free from it all - but then there is the change in direction to embody that realization and that's when you have to deal with the conditioning, where the rubber meets the road so to speak. In that movement back to your conditioning is the actualization of what you realized.
The thing is it isn't really a sequential process, people can have some insight and then some of that will come through and some conditioning is freed up, but when the initial realization is not total and thorough then you've got that demon haunting you, whereas when you see through it you can still have all that conditioning but none of it bothers you, and of course then it'll just come with time. In terms of freedom from suffering it makes more sense to go to the point of realization, otherwise you can be somewhat functional, perhaps even more functional than some realized individuals, (certainly more than a lot of newly realized, not-so-functional people) but still suffer.
In the case of the exJW we can see how some people are doing a lot of work in educating people and 'spreading the word' about the WTS, but if you ask them atleast some will no doubt by their own admission acknowledge that there is some degree of suffering. As an aside, some may believe that their work is fueled by the anger and basically that attachment, and that may indeed be the case. What I would say to those who believe this is it doesn't mean you wouldn't care anymore if you do become free and no longer suffer over it, or that you would no longer do this kind of work - it could just be coming from a place of freedom rather than reaction. You can only be more functional as you are not identified with any kind of rigid structure.
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Terry
I'm thinking about Dr. Pavlov just now. That famous Russian scientist who rang a bell to make a dog salivate.
Each day at mealtime the good Doctor would ring the bell and immediately place food in front of the dog. After a week or so of this routine he just rang the bell at odd times and always the dog's body connected FOOD! to the sound of the bell. Rivers of doggy spittle ensued.
Being a JW was not at all different from being Pavlov's doggy.
We were conditioned like crazy with bells going off like Notre Dame cathedral at High Mass.
So much conditioning!
First, we learned to react to certain key words (words changed to mean something new).
THE TRUTH made us salivate.
NEW LIGHT, WORLDLY, SHEEP-LIKE, SLAVE CLASS, ARMAGEDDON, etc. all held giant BING BONGS of importance that had our chins damp with enthusiasm.
We were like marionettes with the strings around the Governing Body's collective fingers. Twitch twitch twitch made us dance and skip and obey with ease.
It was conditioning and it created a make-believe world for us to live in.
We were, in short, DELUSIONAL.
When it all went away (the ritual and the regularity; the structure and the significance) we were left in a void of floating, anchorless oblivion with no compass or map to guide our daily life.
Every once and awhile a bell would ring and our body would respond with a jolt!
We had no experience being PRO-active. It was always REactive.
We were counter-punchers. We could defend our belief. We would swtich on our black/white thinking and go with the preordained strategy without a moment's thought necessary.
How disconcerting it is to no longer be a Jehovah's Witness AND YET STILL THINK LIKE ONE!!!
How very odd.
How very disorienting.
What does one do with all this "training" when there is no need of it anymore???
Usually, as the header describes (above) we TRANSFER our alliegences like wandering pilgrims who are mercenaries; we sell out our skills to the highest bidder.
Whatever calms our nervous mind gets our service.
If we are God-addicts we will find a new name brand to inhale deep into our craving lungs.
If we are service addicts we might find a political action to take or a charity to support. Becoming activist allows us to flow into new channels of energetic focus.
If we are fellowship addicts we'll find a friendly church or club to meet our needs.
Whatever the craving; there is a new outlet to slake the thirst.
BUT, we have to do major housecleaning in our head or we remain JW's by another name.
For me, it meant going over my concept vocabulary with a fine-tooth comb and picking out the nits. Where did I get this ____concept and are the definitions accurate?
If "no", out it goes.
Years it takes. One by one the conceptual vocabulary of values has to be overhauled.
The emotional part of us follows the value part of us. One creates the other.
In realigning my values I grow more healthy emotionally.
For me it was language and how I thought *using particular words in specific ways.*
I am deeply attuned to how words are used to persuade.
I accept no premise without deep subterranean exploration for hidden agendas or smuggled concepts.
How ideas are linked is vital too.
That is what worked for me.
I found my vocabulary was riddled with false words with phoney definitions.
Until I rooted out those virus infections I could not reason rationally. I was a prisoner to Watchtower-think.
The bell would ring and I would drool on cue.
Fortunately, I've not sought solace in a group religion. I did not go from a frying pan into a fire. I tend my own garden of thought.
My most edifying exploration consisted of visiting a Discussion site of religious people very similar to Jehovah's Witnesses. They are offshoots of William Miller's adventist ideas.
CHRISTADELPHIANs they are called. They are so much like JW's in every way! Except they are more scholarly in approach and less dogmatic and more intelligent.
Visiting with them for about two months was most enlightening.
I reccomend a visit if you want to see how William Miller was a father to many bastard ideas.
Site:
http://www.thechristadelphians.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3017&st=0entry81162
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sonnyboy
These feelings sound familiar.
I can only speak for myself, but this seems due to a shred of belief still in existence. My mind tells me that most of what they teach is wrong. My mind tells me that, judging by all the contradictions in the bible, God doesn't exist at all. However, part of me still believes everything. Many of us have been conditioned to believe certain things from birth, and it's hard to get out of that mindset. I think that's why many people are afraid to challenge the existence of God: They 'feel' his presence, but don't consider the possibility that this is due to years of brainwashing. They don't want to discover that everything they'd believed in was a lie.
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gumby
I guess getting old and dying are the only things that stick with me as far as "doom" is concerned regardless of what I have been taught or will ever learn.
Gumby