Prove to me that God exists (page 21)

tetrapod.sapien

It makes me feel that maybe those who do not believe in God are extremely threatened or offended by anyone who even gives the appearance of doing so. Otherwise, why would so many feel the need to sidetrack the stated purpose of a thread like this?

oldsoul,

we are exasperated at having to wait for the evidence. everyone wants to argue about who should be giving it, when it has already been defined who should be giving it!

None of these have been proven, none of them can be proven, all of them are adhered to faithfully as foundational scientific precepts. On what basis?

okay. "we cannot prove that energy exists, therefore god exists." surely not, as that would be non sequitur. so, "we cannot prove that energy exists, therefore it is presumtuous to say that god doesn't exist." yet another non sequitur! the two have nothing to do with each other. metaphors! illustrations! mean nothing! we await some evidence! thank you.

hi evan! thanks for joining us!

my first point: Science cannot prove that god exists because god is spiritual and not physical.

please read the posts on implied assertions. yours is neatly bundled up in this sentence. it is that god exists. and yet this means nothing to the person who lacks a belief in god. what weight can it have? it's like me saying: "Science cannot prove that santa claus exists because santa claus is spiritual and not physical." you wouldn't agree with the statement, because you do not believe in santa.

all through time, we have these wonderful reports of god interacting WITH the physical. where is he now? why when we grow the capacity for critical thought and scientific method, he suddenly disappears from the science?

Second point: If you seek god with all your heart, mind and spirit you will find him, so you must have faith and seek him with your heart.

implied assertion.

I seeked god with my heart and I have found him, so thats my personal experiance. Listen to the little voice inside of you, ignore all the clang clang in your head, and all of the distractions, you must stop blocking him, right now you are probebly trying to push god away.

i am glad for you that you have this. but i do not. you saying that you "know" he exists, is not good enough. i need help with evidence!

third point: big bang? who caused it?

abaddon has said it about 40 times in this thread: fine. who caused the causer? paradox alert!

The way things motion in our world? the rotation of the sun and moon? can this be a coincidence? Surely there must be a divine intelligence behind it all, to organiste the food chain, the position of the planet to design our world, it couldn't of all just happened?

the Argument from Design, has been shrinking and shrinking in cosmology since copernicus, and in biology since darwin and wallace. if there was a god, the gap that he could also fill is so small as to be almost insulting to him. science explains the data way better than theology, and answers more questions than it creates.

please don't eat me, you asked 4 a debate......

it's nothing personal. it's a debate. i applaud you for coming by and actually offering some evidence for gods existence. most have not. cheers.

ellderwho

so yes, in all fairness, there is a possibility. but while we are talking possibilities, there is also the possibility that santa claus exists and that the Lord of the Rings is inspired word of God. There is just as much proof for santa as there is for god. sorry.

Whoa....... by all means dont be sorry. (for what) Your unprovable position is just as without cause as mine. Sheesh! !

how many times do we have to show that the onus of proof lies on the believer. don't ask us to prove a negative! sheesh!

Who's we, the collective athiest community. Because your athiesm does not seem as strong as other athiests' ..... I think your an agnostic at heart So what your saying is the onus is on who asks the question first?

LOL (shaking head)

it's nothing personal. it's a debate. i applaud you for coming by and actually offering some evidence for gods existence. most have not. cheers.

And what evidence are you reffering to?

tetrapod.sapien

Your unprovable position is just as without cause as mine. Sheesh! !

(with great sighing) for the eight hundredth time: i do not have the burden of proof. read the other posts and get over it.

So what your saying is the onus is on who asks the question first?

no. if you had read the other posts, you would not be asking this question.

And what evidence are you reffering to?

if you read the other posts, you would not be asking this question. she had three pieces of evidence for gods existence. evan: 3 elderwho: 0. they were not logical, but she did present them as evidence.

peacefulpete

I think you understood the meaninglessness of your last post when you remarked about the pink unicorns etc.

Ha! The same standard would apply to both. It works both ways. You cannot prove pink whatevers' do not exist. Same with an entity. Back to square 1.

I guess I was wrong, you don't realize the meaninglessness of your comment.

toreador

OldSoul

Tor: Do you write all this stuff or do you get it from somewhere else?

Even when I don't know the source, I will at least source as "anonymous" or "unknown" if I am taking someone else's ideas. I have had occasions where posters thought I was plagiarizing thoughts or ideas from other sources, but it turned out I never been exposed to them. At least, not consciously. I think we pick up a lot that we aren't even aware of.

But, my style of expression is my own, to my wife's chagrin. I talk this way in real life, too.

Respectfully,
OldSoul

OldSoul

Tetrapod.Sapien: I asked for proof that energy exists. Have you any?

I would further like proof of the claims that: (1) energy has always existed, and (2) energy is and always has been in motion.

My point is that science acts on these as articles of faith and draw conclusions from these as fact, although they are extraordinary claims that do not have supporting extraordinary proofs. Is it reality? Maybe. Either way, we will continue to act as though it is and reason as though it is whether it is or not.

Personally, I will continue to act as though God is a reality and reason as though God is a reality whether that is the case or not. I wanted to point out that when it comes to dogma of extraordinary claims that are unproven, religion is not alone, unless you consider science a religion. In which case, religion is alone in this human behavior.

All humans believe in things they cannot see and cannot prove to exist. Even you.

In closing, my response to a challenge for proof for God is, "Why? Do you have to have proof for everything you believe in?" If you are human, the answer is provably, no. As far as we can determine, that is true only for humans. As a species. There is little indication that other species that share our planet operate on anything more than physical principles. Other species really demonstrate no interest in scientific endeavors to comprehend the unseen at all.

Respectfully,
OldSoul

Podiatrist

every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Bas

There even might have been a big crunch before the last big bang but for a long time phycisists have agreed that there is no way of knowing wat was before the Big Bang. They do agree however that it might have been a big crunch that caused the big bang. Also there's no definitive evidence that our own Universe will end in eternal expansion and cooling off below temperatures that can sustain life or that the Universe might stop expanding under the force of gravity, start to contract and end in a big crunch. FACT is that the universe is still rapidly expanding at this time and that it will continue to expand for billions of years. So the big crunch (the real big A) won't come in our lifetimes....

Bas

the funny thing about Atheists is that they know they can't disprove the existence of God and in general have peace with that, while believers know they can't proof their beliefs about God which frustrates some.....

And Atheists do know what is wrong and right, they are some of the most sensitive, intelligent and straightforward people I ever met. They seem to be more focused on what their fellow human being feels without religious biasses and prejudice clouding their view of the souls of others or themselves.......

Prove to me that God exists

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