Question for Christians and ex-JW: How is salvation attained?

by Check_Your_Premises 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Why Georgia
    Why Georgia

    I kind of like the 12 step view of things....and Karma.

    I've been involved in too many religions.....I'm all religioned out.

    Right now I just try to be a good person...do no harm. I try to do what's right. I try to teach my boys the difference between right and wrong.

    I stay away from evil people.

    I try not to be a hypocrite. I try not to judge.

    I try to be loving to people and am trying now to be loving towards people who I feel....(this is me being judgemental) don't deserve my love.

    I'm a work in progress and I don't know if any of this answered your question.

    Do I believe in God? I believe in something bigger than me. Do I pray? Yes I do...sometimes that's how I get through the day and the nights with a teething 10 month old. Do I believe in heaven? Some days I do and some days I hope and wonder? Do I believe there is a hell? Yes...and I believe it can be self imposed or possibly it's like Sheol and just being dead forever.

    Sorry to get so long winded.

    WG

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    LT

    OK I think I understand you now. From a christian perspective, salvation is attaining, finding, stumbling on, your personnal relationship with Christ. Yes / No?

    steve

  • Check_Your_Premises
    Check_Your_Premises
    CYP:It's not a coupon - you just accept it.

    Fair enough little toe,

    That is the view I tend toward. Now how would you support that view with the scriptures? How would the dubs argue and use the scriptures to say your view is inadequate?

    You see I figure you have already thought about this. I am trying to benefit from yours, and others wisdom. I have learned long ago that we can see much further if we stand on the "shoulders of giants"

    If that isn't possible, I am more than happy to settle for standing on a Little Toe.

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Here's the accepted viewpoint that crosses denominational lines, from blueletterbible.org:

    Man was created to have fellowship with God, but because of his sin (i.e., anything that is against the righteousness revealed in God's Law) he is prevented from that fellowship. This includes anything less than perfect obedience to God's commands...

    God created a way by sending His Son to pay the price for our sin. "God demonstrated His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). He died in our place; He who knew no sin became sin for us. This removed our burden of sin and allows us to enter into that desired fellowship if we follow His way.

    He is the only way. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).

    It is not just enough that you know these truths. We must individually place our trust in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. It is by repenting of our sins and believing on Christ that we can know God personally and experience His love.

    "But as many as receive Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12).
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:8-10).
    "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).

    You can receive Jesus Christ right now by faith. "If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation" (Romans 10:9-10).

    If you now believe on God and place your faith in His Son, congratulations — and welcome to His family. We, all being His children, share in a heavenly inheritance! We are heirs to heaven and are promised the eternal pleasure of glorifying God. As our life here on earth progresses, God will continue to work in our hearts. We are daily being conformed to the image of Christ, Himself. We will begin to live lives of righteousness. Obedience to God will not be a burden to us, but rather a joy.

    You may wonder, now that you are a Christian, "What now?" Our greatest recommendation for believers, new and old, is fourfold: 1) find a church so you might hear the preaching of the Word and rejoice in the fellowship of other Christians, 2) study the Bible for that is where we learn of God and His plans, 3) pray to Him to strengthen your faith and increase your love toward Him, and 4) enjoy the blessings given by God in the heavenly ordained sacraments: baptism and the Lord's Supper. All of these will work to encourage and build upon your faith. If you have any questions, search the Scriptures, ask your Pastor, or please feel free to ask us.

    So you can see, the emphasis is that salvation comes directly through Christ ALONE. Spiritual growth then comes through learning. WHERE you do the learning is up to you. I quote 1 Tim 2:3,4 "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." Notice the order of events.

  • RichieRich
    RichieRich

    As an Atheist, I ask:

    Why does salvation matter?

    My salvation is in the arms of a beautiful youn lady with loving friends around.

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    It's a Celtic pilgrimage, which is a journey from cradle to grave ("the way"), not a destination. At some point on that journey you meet with "Christ", by either gradually drawing close to him or a chance encounter. From that point on it's a personal relationship which we likely neglect often.
    After the end of the journey it's "Christ"'s face you see in the mirror.

    LT pulled the words right out of my Scottish (Cathcart) heart. It is a celtic journey significantly enhanced when and if you are blessed to receive a spiritual experience along the road of life that leads to a personal relationship with our Lord and God, Christ.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Let me try to summarise a few NT answers:

    Synoptic Gospels: if you want to be perfect, leave your family, get rid of all your belongings, go and preach the good news relying on God's providence. Otherwise, keep the OT commandments, loving everyone in a non-judgemental way, and support those who follow the perfect way. Keyword: do.

    John: listen and look to Jesus as the ultimate revelation of the Father, until you realise that you are children of God, already saved and beyond any judgement; then remain in that revelation and love one another as children of God. Keyword: know.

    Paul: just believe in Jesus and unite to his death and resurrection in baptism and the Eucharist. Keyword: believe.

    Pastorals: stick to the received doctrine, stick to your social position and be submissive to the church leaders. Keyword: obey.

  • Pole
    Pole
    Synoptic Gospels: if you want to be perfect, leave your family, get rid of all your belongings, go and preach the good news relying on God's providence. Otherwise, keep the OT commandments, loving everyone in a non-judgemental way, and support those who follow the perfect way. Keyword: do.

    John: listen and look to Jesus as the ultimate revelation of the Father, until you realise that you are children of God, already saved and beyond any judgement; then remain in that revelation and love one another as children of God. Keyword: know.

    Paul: just believe in Jesus and unite to his death and resurrection in baptism and the Eucharist. Keyword: believe.

    Pastorals: stick to the received doctrine, stick to your social position and be submissive to the church leaders. Keyword: obey.



    This thread will likely illustrate how much effort it takes for a person to reconcile all of these 'keywords' (and many more, I'm sure) in order to save the idea of the theological uniformity of the Bible.

    Pole

  • M.J.
    M.J.
    This thread will likely illustrate how much effort it takes for a person to reconcile all of these 'keywords' (and many more, I'm sure) in order to save the idea of the theological uniformity of the Bible.

    I'll take an amateurish shot at it:

    By knowing you cannot truly be perfect according to God's law, and believing that Christ died for you because of this, you come to know him and are transformed in a way that manifests itself in doing God's will, which can include obedience to spiritual direction.

    Okay, I know that Nark's point was that each of these key words represented the origin of salvation and not as part of some sort of a progression as I put together here...But I think each account adds a different perspective to an overall message rather than stand in direct contradiction to the others.

  • Pole
    Pole

    M.J.,

    Take a thesaurus, look up a word and find an antonym of this word (a word that has the "opposite" meaning - whatever the opposiotion might be). If you try hard enough you can go from almost any word to its antonym in less than 5 or 6 steps by picking immediate synonyms at each step.

    Semantic borders are fuzzy. If you really want you can cross them and reconcile two fairly opposite concepts of salvation that can be found in two different Bible passages.

    I personally think it's much more honest to put those differences in a historical perspective and admit that different writers of the Bible had different views of salvation. This seems to be a natural explanation when you take into account the variability of views different Christians have today.

    On the other hand you can assume that there was an angelic editor supervising the not-so-obvious uniformity of the Biblical message. To defend this view you need to get ready for some semantic gymnastics, though.

    Here we go, using my dictionary of synonyms:

    believe - admire - worship - obey

    Or as you put it:

    By knowing you cannot truly be perfect according to God's law, and believing that Christ died for you because of this, you come to know him and are transformed in a way that manifests itself in doing God's will, which can include obedience to spiritual direction.



    I'm sure you can go from God to Satan this way too. Isn't it just more honest to admit that Early Christian groups differed (sometimes categorically) in their views?

    Peace,

    Pole

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