how to live with JW

by freefly 32 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  freefly

  Hey,

  My partner in life (26yrs) has been converted to JW by his mother.

  I am not one to whine -as very aware many have more troubles in their life.

  I suppose one of my fears has been this exactly- as I know he was raised JW and should have saw the "signs." He always regularly visited with his mom, which I respected as felt a good sign he had a mother/son relationship. After 911 he announced he was going to start reading the bible....my reaction...that is your personal choice. He decided to quit smoking...wow! He decided to quit drinking? I had never known him as a drinker, so thought this strange............things just got stranger after that between us. He started not wanting to go out socially at all with our friends.

  breakdown- ..when I found the JW bible beside are bed with Watchtower one day I noticed a letter from his uncle (JW) in Oakland. It was addressed to his mothers address, not to ours- I read it. His uncle wrote how very sure he was that Jehovah & Christ Jesus would strengthen him----he also wrote with condolences on the fact that him and I had seperated??????

  When I confronted him about this, he simply stated his uncle was mistaken. He did believe what they believe and had started going to bible study at the local hall. Many times I noticed him come in the house quickly to go downstairs and change out of his "birthday suit." His mother/son relationship was bible study of course with his mom and her friends that he explained were "in the truth."

  O.K......you think you are "in the truth" and I am what then?

  I asked him to sit down a write a list of changes that would occur in our relationship due to his "belief."

  I waited, and waited for that list. I kept my feelings inside and did not express my rage, I raced around spending hords of useless time faking everything was just fine....regardless of how phoney everything had become. We acted like a couple around our boys, my family, still went grocery shopping together, ate together, ...........our conversations became impersonal- weather, light topics- everything nice, nice, nice..........

  I started reading all and any info I could find on JW's and to this date still have questions, why, and how he could believe "what they believe." When I started confronting him on "his believe" I found his replies to be demeaning to me....(you've been grabbing stuff off the internet that is stupid...he is instantly on the defensive and grabbing the bible to quote verses....arguing in circles.....) O.K. everyone has a right to their personal belief, fine. We were never married, raised 2 sons and this time in my life I have looked so foward to- just my partner and myself in our own home...retiring together. Now things have changed, boo hoo. He announced we cannot live in the same house together unless we have no sexual relations re: no cuddles, no kisses, no touching, no expression of our love- re: we are living in "sin." So, our whole relationship to date is thought of in his mind as "sin." I am thought of as "satan's organization"...he honestly thinks we can live like this, and still have a relationship?? He sleeps downstairs, I sleep up-

  When requesting the "list" of changes he expressed he couldn't think of any changes to our relationship?

  I have no conclusion to this but to separate- talking with my family about this I get reponses like:

  lots of couples live together with different religions and still respect each other,

  if you really love him you will work it out........

  The person I loved and respected is not the person I am living with now. We are no longer partners in life together, our home now feels like a house...(just a roof over our heads)

  %$#&** he has changed, I have no religion and he has started trying to convert me- I told him I do not want to hear another word about Jehovah...and go find yourself a sweet JW lady please, have a lovely life. He says we cannot afford to live separate................he still loves me and I must not love him.

  I have allowed myself to feel what I feel now-

  I feel betrayed, he has been dishonest (knowing what my reaction would be), he has been deceitful by not communicating to me what he feels. I can only understand that he has been raised with an inborn fear that the end is near, he feels in his heart he is becoming a better man (no more sin)- He doesn't express to me how he feels about his belief re: I want to know what he feels, not information that someone else has wrote, or what is written in the bible. I want to know what "he" thinks and why he trusts what he reads so easily without questioning. The whole time I am thinking he feels (just ignor her, she isn't "in the truth."

  He is not baptised yet, but really may as well be. ggggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrr-

  I want out of here so badly I could scream- would rather us end this before I pull his hair out.

  help

  thanx,

  SMiles
• 

  Aude_Sapere

  Hi Freefly -
  
  Welcome to JWD. This is a great place to vent and 'come to terms' with your current situation.
  
  I do not have much to comment right now but I know that others here certainly will.
  
  If you look around (especially the 'Best of' section) you will find that you story is not so terribly unique.
  
  
  **if you really love him you will work it out........**
  
  In the end, you BOTH have to work together. I wish you well as you sort out what you will need to do for your own peace and sanity.
  
  Happy to have you along.
  
  -Aude.
  (Raised in the organization from age 10. I was baptized at 14. Pioneered for a few years in my 20's while supporting myself. I started to fade shortly after that and have now been inactive for about 13 years. I will never go back. Not after what I've learned about WTS secrets.)
• 

  iggy_the_fish

  freefly, the situation you describe is horrible. You've been put in an awful situation. To be honest, you seem to have pretty much got it worked out correctly in your own mind, it doesn't seem fair or practical for you both to live as "housemates". The only other (and very bad) option is to marry him, but as you say he has been deceitful, and why would you marry a deceitful person?

  As for his reaction to the events of Sept. 9 2001, that really rang a bell in my head. My mum became a JW in the early 80s, my father wasn't interested (sensible chap) so I was brought up (on and off) going to enough meetings for the JW bull$hit to get under my skin. I was never baptised, and by the time Sept.2001 came round, I had not had anything to do with the JWs for almost 10 years. However, when those planes hit the towers, my FIRST thought was that this was armageddon, and that the JWs had been right all along. Their mojo is mighty powerful. Luckily for me, I ended up here discovering the truth about "the truth", rather than back in a Kingdom Hall.

  He has made this bed for himself, so he must lie in it, I feel. Any chance you can kick him out? (forgive me for being blunt). Maybe he can go and live with his mother, so she can cook and wash for him, as well as think for him. I wish I had better advice for you.

  ig.
• 

  dh

  I told him I do not want to hear another word about Jehovah...and go find yourself a sweet JW lady please, have a lovely life.

  This is the best thing you could say, to yourself and him... I would get out of there as soon as possible, as the guy has broken any trust you could have of him, and from what you wrote it appears he has no respect for you... Like JW's he doesn't have a personal belief, only the collective which he has taken onboard... See 'Make The Truth Your Own' (it is a JW slogan & song)

  Try to get out of there as gently as possible, without beating yourself up trying to change him as that will do a lot more damage to you, and we don't want that.
• 

  LittleToe

  You had built a home together - why should YOU be the one to leave? As long as he keeps contributing to the bills, maybe him staying on a room isn't such a bad thing, as you get on with your own life. Whileever he stays they wont let him get baptised, as he's still under the same roof as you, but that's his choice. Can you leave out various short articles from this site, like the United Nations thing, etc., in the hope that he might read them?

  How old are the children, as they are potentially the biggest losers in this (second only to yourself)?

  I've experienced some of the flip-side of this. My wife and I had been JWs our whole lives, when I decided to leave the "religion". The alienation of affection was cripplingly painful, as well you know. They are taught that outsiders are alienated from God, so divorcing their emotions from their partner is just one of the coping mechanisms that are incurred. They are also reinforced regularly in their choice, but all the meetings they attend.

  I can entirely sympathise!

  (((hugs))))
• 

  garybuss

  Welcome!
  He's just reducing his dissonance. His beliefs and his behaviors didn't match. Now they will. The choice is easy for some adult children of Witnesses. On one hand they have a welcoming Witness family and an instant network of new and old friends and on the other hand they have a pissed off spouse.
  
  Even an agreeable spouse has a hard time competing with the love bombing the Witness people are willing to give a newcomer or a returnee.
  
  A marriage problem with a Witness spouse is ALWAYS a marriage problem. It's NEVER a religion problem. It needs a marriage solution.
  
  All people exposed to the Witness group for any length of time and ALL children of Witnesses suffer post exit syndrome if they leave the group. If that is not treated, they will (one) self destruct. (two) return to the group, or (three) live a life of crisis and conflict. If they are sick of three they do two. If they are sick of three and can't do two they do one. Some bounce three, one, two. Some escape into addictions and many die a lonely death.
  
  The ones who have not been treated and are in danger, often have a good hope of recovery if they return to the group for a time, rest up, escape the dissonance for a time, regroup and think things through. Often when they return, they see things in the group with a more critical eye. Things they forgot about, or things they overlooked before.
  
  My advise? Go with him. Don't let him get away from you. That's what he wants. Every time the car goes, be in it. Openly be critical of the group when it's appropriate. Make sure the Witness people don't like you. Learn some of their problem areas and ask Witness people about those. Things like the UN issue and the sex offender policies and law suits. Make you and him as a "couple" undesirable to the Witness people. If they shun you, they will shun you as a couple. That blocks the love bombing. Now he can't get his rewards. Don't let then isolate him. They will try. Be his shadow.
  
  You will need to fight your mother in law. She's your enemy. Never fight him. Only her.
  
  Next get him into marriage counseling and use that as a way to get him into exit counseling. Just call the "exit counseling", marriage counseling. Find a counselor who knows how to exit cult members. Look till you find one. This is doable.
  
  
• 

  Goldminer

  Hi Freefly,

  Welcome! Looks like you've got a good battle on your hands.I would recommend that you get the book Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz.It explains a lot of the inner workings of the WTS as well as many of their false doctrines plus it's written in a clear,easy way to read well thought out and many points to make a person reason with his mind.

  As for myself,I don't want to have anything to do with the religion anymore but my wife wants to remain loyal no matter what.It's a tough situation here too but I'm not giving up.

  Goldminer
• 

  jgnat

  Hi, I am a regular Christian married to a Jehovah's Witness. I wish I could say your story is unique, but the JW indoctrination methods are pretty well the same wherever you go. The most reprehensible part of your husband's behavior is that he kept his deepest fears and desires secret from you. He got involved in the WTS behind your back. He has decided, without you, that you are not the desireable wife that will help him get re-established in his faith. I believe he has already decided to separate, and said so to his JW family, without discussing it with you. Because that is what they would want to hear. He very likely has already told them you are an unbeliever who would oppose his membership. Gary's advice would blow some of that misconception out of the water. His new friends would have to deal with you as a flesh-and-blood reality rather than as an abstraction. There is another danger, even if you separate. Your partner and your mother-in-law will do their best to indoctrinate your children and separate them from you as well. Their pattern is well-established. They won't tell you they are doing it, they will do it behind your back. You need a strategy to deal with that. Don't get blind-sided again.

  if you really love him you will work it out

  This is guilt-inducing talk. Your family has no idea what kind of hold the WTS has on it's members. Your instincts are right. You are in the fight of your life to salvage something of what you had.

  he still loves me and I must not love him.

  This is also guilt-inducing talk. Ask him a few questions. Does he see himself as your husband? Is he behaving as a husband should act? Is it love to cut off your partner from your deepest feelings? Remember, no matter what you try, you are living with a man who has his own mind and own decisions to make. In spite of your best efforts, he can still do whatever he thinks is right for him. I figure you have a few choices:
  1. Don't go down without a fight.
  2. He wants to trash all you have together? Then, fine. Make him pay for his choice.
  3. Try and get through to him what he is about to lose before it is gone.
  4. Join them.
  1. Gary Buss's advice is excellent if you want to salvage your marriage, or, at least make his transition as painful as possible for him:
  
  My advise? Go with him. Don't let him get away from you. That's what he wants. Every time the car goes, be in it. Openly be critical of the group when it's appropriate. Make sure the Witness people don't like you. Learn some of their problem areas and ask Witness people about those. Things like the UN issue and the sex offender policies and law suits. Make you and him as a "couple" undesirable to the Witness people. If they shun you, they will shun you as a couple. That blocks the love bombing. Now he can't get his rewards. Don't let then isolate him. They will try. Be his shadow.
  2. If you decide "I won't take this crap any more ", make him pay all the way for his choices. To accept the JW's is to move on to shaky ground. If he becomes unacceptable in any way, their love will cool. I think he knows this deep down. Make it as hard as possible for him to remain on their good side.

  He says we cannot afford to live separate

  Making him move in with mom sounds like a great idea. Let him see how fun that life will be without you and with mama 24-7. As a father and provider, his obligation is to help you support the family home for you and the children. Accept nothing less.
  
  3. If you want to try and salvage your relationship , I usually advise to go the slow and patient route, but this man has ridden roughshod over all your feelings in a most sneaky way. You first have to establish that there are to be NO SECRETS between you. Like Gary said, don't let him run his secret life. Go along.

  As you have already found out, if you sound at all like a spiritual risk, he gets mighty defensive and shuts down. It is possible to keep the lines of communication open if you don't openly oppose his beliefs. Once trust is re-established, you can remind him of the joys and loves of your common history. When you talk about non-JW stuff, you can virtually see the personality change in front of your eyes, and for a short while, you get your husband back. If you want to try and salvage your relationship, I recommend getting Steven Hassan's "Combatting Cult Mind Control".

  Just as your hubby has not been forthcoming on what changes are in store for you, he has also not told you his obligations towards you. Here they are, from "The Secret of Family Happiness" book, starting on page 128. Ask him to read it together with you. I think you can make a good argument with the elders, if it comes to that, that he has husbandly responsibilities due to your common history and that you have had children together.

  • He is to work out your differences rather than run away from them. (page 128)
  • As long as you are agreeable to living with him, he cannot separate (page 132)
  • He is to be considerate about your feelings of neglect and give you his time (page 133)

  There is a flipside to making a JW do what they are supposed to do according to their own rules. They can get resentful. Because, really, the Watchtower is full of rules but no tools on how to maintain such a life. Notice in the family happiness book they give no direction on how to re-establish intimacy, keep open lines of communication, or to build love back in to the relationship. For good advice, you will need the help of a marriage counsellor.
  
  Here is a short list of the changes to your life:
  - He is supposed to marry you and make it legal (page 139) yuk. This weasel is not looking like marriagable material right now.
  - No participation in family events such as Christmas, Easter, Valentines Day, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Mother's Day, and Birthdays.
  - If family members are married or buried in a church, he will likely not attend.
  - He will be obliged to try and raise your children as Jehovah's Witnesses. He will do it quietly, but he must do it.
  - Any criticism of the society will be taken as from Satan. He will think he is sleeping with Satan. You will be sleeping with your Mother-in-Law (or the WTS). Yuk.
  - You will have two evenings a week free, without his company, plus several hours on Saturday, and Sunday.
  - He will need to study for the meetings at least a couple of hours a week.
  - That means there will be no full day that your family will have together. Even weekends away he will likely be guilted in to phoning in and explaining why he is missing the meeting.
  - Any ambition, schooling, or desire for improving your quality of life will be regarded as "materialism". His ambitions will be replaced by those of the society; more field service, Ministerial Servant, and Elder. You will see less of him over time.
  4. Join them. Yuk. Sorry. I get the shivers just thinking about it. You will be warned that family and friends and the dreaded internet will try and keep you away from them, because only they have the "truth" and everyone else is from Satan. Doddering old ladies will tell you that you will "get used to" the monotony. You will get lots of luvs and hugs at the meeting as a reward for being a good JW wife. You will have to change your wardrobe to something more conservative. You will have to accept the advice of these people on the proper raising of your children. You will notice that outside JW activities, these nice ladies never call. You will push your children to baptize early and stay in the organization so that you will never have to shun him. You will get to sit in all those meetings with your children at your side (no fidgeting).
• 

  Honesty

  After 911 he announced he was going to start reading the bible....my reaction...that is your personal choice.

  He would have never involved himself with the JW's if he had read only the bible. He was fed some 'meat in due season' (WT publications) by his mother and is blinded by the WitchTower Babble and Trick Society. If he wants to become a JW so he can survive Armageddon he is a selfish twit. 99.9% of JW's are only a JW because they think loyalty to the Governing Body of JW's is going to give them their salvation when Jesus really returns.
• 

  Nosferatu

  I really feel for you. He has begun replacing his love for you with his love for the JW god (Jehovah). JWs are taught to put Jehovah first in their life, and everything else comes second. He has bumped you WAY down the list of importance. In fact, you've come in dead last because you're not a JW. The Governing Body, The elders, members of the congregation, his mother, Jehovah, and even the children will come before you.

  If he truly loved you, he wouldn't want to dispose of you because some bullshit invisible god told him to.

  It's really sad, and I hope you can salvage whatever you can from this situation.