A question for the Christians...

by misspeaches 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  ozziepost

  G'day Miss Peaches,
  

  So all the downunder mob are in posting timezone, eh?

  Anyway, some comments on topic:

  Firstly, to address this premise:
  

  As a christian the belief is that you are going to heaven right? So what is the relevance about the will taking place on earth?

  Is that really true? Christians believe that God, the creator of time and space, is not someone to go to, as in a fixed location. The dubs used to believe that god inhabited Pleiedes and haven't IMO progressed too far since then. Christians believe that their destiny ("hope") is to be with God. The apostle Paul spoke of his desire, his yearning to be with the Father. So where is that? Simply put, we don't know, how could we mortals who are limited to our own finite existence. What we do have assurance of is that Jesus promised to prepare a place for us, wherever that might be. We have confidence or faith in that.

  Secondly, the dubs speak of two existencies in the resurrection, the heavenly and the earthly, yet Revelation speaks of New Jerusalem coming down from heaven to earth. Peter speaks of a new heavens and a new earth. It does seem that in future times, there will be a uniting of heaven and earth. But if we read Peter's words literally then there will be a new earth to inhabit.

  Thirdly, christians are awaiting the Second Coming of Christ. Yes, they pray earnestly for God's Will on earth in that respect but also in the meantimes for God's Will to be done.

  So be assured that the dubs don't have a mortgage on the Lord's Prayer - quite the opposite.

  Cheers, Ozzie
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  Markfromcali

  Isn't it strange how those who claim unbelief want to quickly respond on a "to the christians" thread?

  Not really, doesn't this presume you necessarily respond to belief with beliefs? Isn't it possible to respond in some other way? Beliefs may come into play at some level, but then there is also the simple matter of exchanging ideas and consideration of them based on their own merit - and what you do with them is up to you.
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  the_classicist

  I would love to hear your opinions on this matter. As a christian the belief is that you are going to heaven right? So what is the relevance about the will taking place on earth?

  Hmmm... its a bit complicated. The Orthodox hold that when one dies they go to "Abraham's bosom" or hell until the day of judgement. After that, there's a resurrection, etc. Catholic hold that when you die you got to hell, or heaven, or purgatory then heaven. Then there's judgement day, and the resurrection and a renewal of the heavens and the earth. For those in hell, body is joined with soul to spend an eternity in suffering. For those in heaven, body is joined with soul where one beholds the face of God. I would assume at this point, the boundaries between heaven and earth are somewhat blurred.
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  tetrapod.sapien

  I am happy to hear anyones input on this.

  thanks!

  'Let your will take place in heaven also upon earth

  do you mind if i break it down even further?

  'Let your

  who? god? well, this is tricky. the obvious fact that god spoke to us all via a book, is not good enough for me. so i would need some other data to begin accepting that there is a "your", or God being spoken to in the prayer.

  will take place

  again, i don't mean to be mean, but until i can be certain that i am praying this prayer to a deity that exists, i would feel like i were praying to an ancient writer from a nomadic desert tribe. no offense implied.

  in heaven

  this i have a praticular problem with. there has never really been a good definition of heaven. in the past, it has been wherever man has never gone forth boldly before. no one really thinks heaven is in our atmosphere anymore, since our 747's would be flying through it regularly. again, just outside our atmosphere and into nearby space doesn't cut it anymore either, as no telescopes have photographed the heavenly bodies and cherubs described in the bible. i would say that it is safe to say that it is no where between here and mars. but how far do we have to go before we give up looking for heaven in space?

  some say it is in another "spiritual" dimension. but this is not the impression the bible gives. so, what are we talking about here, and where in the bible does it say heaven is in another dimension?

  also upon earth

  yes. now this i can sink my teeth into! it is almost perfectly spherical, and is the third planet from a non-descript sun, in a no-big-deal solar system, in a back-water galaxy that belongs to a club with billions and billions of members. on the planet earth are a great diversity of flora and fauna. but one species in particular, homo sapiens, think they are really special, and that they are the center of attention in the universe that is torn by the forces of good and evil. the only other species that think anything at all about the homo sapiens, are the canis lupus familiaris. anyways, the homo sapiens go about ruining the planet by exhausting all the fossil fuels, and kill each other when they disagree about stuff. everyone thinks they are right, and basically can't see past their own arrogance. hardly any want to admit that they are just african apes making a total mess of everything, because if they did, they would be admiting to just how alone they really are.

  thanks, misspeaches, for letting me in on the thread. i don't mean to be a troll, or hijack this thread. chances are, i will not raise many eyebrows anyways. in the end, it doesn't matter what we believe on this board, or who we pray to. we are all victims of this cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Let your will take place in heaven also upon earth...

  signing off, african ape # 8,231,956,709 - a.k.a. TS
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  ozziepost

  we are all victims of this cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Amen to that!
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  Markfromcali

  "We're victims of the Witnesses, we speak out in messages.. Ours is the cult of true ... " ahh you fill in the rest!
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  misspeaches

  Guys you have all given me a lot of things to ponder over. I appreaciate ALL of your comments.

  I love the interactions I read on this forum - it makes my day at work so much more interesting!!!!
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  hmike

  Your will be done...starting with my life--in this world, in this age.

  I can only choose for myself.
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  LittleToe

  "As above, so below..." - is our "will" aligned or independant?

  LT, of the "considering starting a reading comprehension class" class
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  Narkissos

  Our Father in heaven,
  Hallowed be your name,
  Your kingdom come,
  Your will be done
  -- on earth as it is in heaven.

  When you look at a Semitic version (e.g. Syriac) of the Matthean prayer, the above structure (inclusio) becomes apparent (more than in Greek which uses first the plural, then the singular for "heaven[s]"). It is a matter of bringing heaven on earth, which was the dominant perspective (at least among Judeo-Christians) while the apocalyptical tradition was alive (still in Revelation, where the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven). Only when the passing of time drew futuristic eschatology back offstage, did "going to heaven" become the main issue in Christianity.