Uh Oh! Now I've gone and done it. Warning: LONG

by betweenworlds 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • betweenworlds
    betweenworlds

    Here I was in happy-no one is really bothering me too much-lala land, Until yesterday when I had to go and open my mouth. A pioneer sister from our hall emailed me to inquire what was preventing me from attending the meetings, and asked what was holding me back from going.(This is about the 5th or 6th email asking this question) Welllllll, I guess I just reached a point where I couldn't pretend anymore. I was tired of pasting that fake grin on my face and nodding my head like an automoton in agreement with everything they said. This is what I wrote...

    I won't be going to the hall on Sunday.

    I really don't think I will be back.

    I love the friends, but there are just way too many things that I don't
    agree with. The society requires a COMPLETE devotion that I don't feel
    comfortable giving imperfect men. Their track record just isn't that good!
    To me truth is truth! There isn't present truth, past truth, old light, new
    light. The changing of the meaning of 1914 AGAIN, a few years back is what
    was really the last straw for me. First 1914 was supposed to be the date for
    armageddon, then when 1914 came and went the dates were switched around, and
    1914 became the time when christ came to power in heaven, and 1925 was set
    to be the date for armageddon. Of course this didn't happen...then the 1914
    generation starts to get older and older til finally they have to accede
    that ok, you just had to be ALIVE in 1914...then finally everyone got to old
    for that to be feasable so of course they have to change the meaning yet
    again. (We won't even go into 1975, or a slew of other dates) If Jesus was
    indeed giving the governing body his explicit direction, it seems like he
    would make it a tad clearer!
    Then there is also the issue of things like wavering on matters of
    vaccinations and organ transplants (For many years accepting either was a
    disfellowshipping offense!) The blood issue...well, they said, you can't
    accept any blood! Well, ok...certain fractions are ok....(Where do these
    fractions come from? They are obtained from many, many pints of blood that
    have been donated and stored) What right do these imperfect men have to
    decide what fractions of blood are allowed and which are not? They have no
    right. (Wavering on such things would seem to be treading on dangerous
    ground, after all who would want to be blood guilty?)They even make what a
    married couple does in the privacy of there own bedroom a matter of law!
    They make what job you can and cannot have a matter of law! They make what
    you can and cannot celebrate a matter of law! Everywhere you turn, there is
    a rule! If you don't toe the line, you are either disfellowshipped and cut
    off from all your friends and family (And yes you can be disfellowshipped
    for things other than pornea or apostasy! There are many who believe in
    Jesus and Jehovah with their whole souls, who's only offense was to question
    some of the teachings of the governing body and not to back down in their
    beliefs...things which later they (the governing body) themselves
    changed!!!!) or deemed unworthy of privleges in the congregation.
    I just can't blindly follow a religious council (which is what the governing
    body is) Who try to control the christian consciences of it's followers to
    SUCH an overwhelming degree. It's wrong. Jesus did not require such, and
    even depised such law making (read any of the scriptures where Jesus is
    speaking to the pharisees.) Don't forget the pharisees too thought they were
    pefectly ok in their beliefs, and as a whole I'm sure they were not bad
    people! It's just that they got SO wrapped up in their laws that love kind
    of fell by the wayside. If one is really chrisitan, one would agree that
    when Jesus died he did away with the law code. Christianity is a not a
    complex maze of laws! Jesus basically said to Love God and Love Your
    Neighbor As Yourself! Easy to understand (though not always easy to do)
    Well, that is just the icing on the cake, but those are pretty much the main
    reasons. I really, really do not want to be disfellowshipped, or to even
    disassociate (Both actions have the same consequences) I find it sad however
    that these are the only two options given to those who have differences with
    the GB and voice them. One is just not allowed to leave quietly. I hope I am
    wrong and that it will not come to that. We will see what the future holds.
    For me, I have NEVER felt such peace. My nightmares have stopped (Ones that
    I have had for as long as I can remember) And for the first time, I think I
    am actually starting to feel some kind of spirituality. Please do not feel
    pity for me! I am not losing anything! I am gaining my life back.

    I'll close for now...I hope I have not lost your respect, as I value your
    thoughts and friendship. Your are a sweet, loving person who has a warmth
    that one feels immediately when in your presence. I love you and thank you
    so much for your concern and kind words.

    Anywho.....that went over like a lead balloon. Here is her reply:

    But now, What can I say to your unsettled and misunderstood words. When
    you dedicated your life as I did you dedicated it to Jehovah and you
    understood the organization that you were becoming part of. Or did you?

    I have no problems with understanding and accepting and appreciating all
    that is involved in being in the truth. Yes the truth is progressive as
    the light is progressive as Jehovah is a progressive.

    I ask you just one question in this regard. If you don't want to be in
    Jehovah's organization what does it matter that you are in name only.?
    As you expressed in your letter, you know it will have to come to
    something. Jesus said one is either for him or against him, there is not
    middle ground, and especially one who has voluntarily dedicated their
    life to Jehovah and the doing of his will. When did that stop being the
    real issue. Did anyone make you do that, Did anyone force you to accept
    the truth and become one of Jehovah's witnesses. It is a decided thing,
    certainly a choice for people who truly believe. Is that now what you
    are saying you no longer feel to be true.

    The ideas you expressed in you e-mail sound like apostate thinking, I
    mean really, what have you been reading? I really don't understand.
    Where will you go, and how will you serve Jehovah?

    Who have you been associating with?

    Yikes! LOL

    Here is my reply back:

    The one true God is not *progressive* as you state...he is has he always has
    been! Rock solid! The truth is the truth! It doesn't change. Men's
    understanding changes, but not the truth or God. That is where my problem
    lies with the organization! We must go along with EVERYTHING as if it is
    directly from God and Jesus not questioning of causing waves. Did the
    apostles back track and change their thinking on things? Paul states
    explicilty in Galations 1:8 "However, even if we or an angel out of heaven
    were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you
    as good news, let him be accursed" and verse 10 "Is it, in fact men I am now
    trying to persuade or God? Or am I seeking to please men? If I were yet
    pleasing men, I would not be christs slave. 11 For I put you on notice
    brothers, that the good news which was declared by me as good news is not
    something human. 12 For neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught
    it, except through revelation by Jesus Christ.
    In Deuteronomy 18:20 it states "However, the prophet who presumes to speak
    in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in
    the names of other Gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should
    say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?"
    22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not
    occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak.
    Those are from God's inspired word, not from me, or any *apostate*
    literature as you phrase it.

    You ask what i have been reading. I would answer to you, The Bible!

    You ask whom I have been associating with. No one different than I have
    ever associated with. My family and my husband's family. My friend next door
    moved away recently, but she had NO influence on my thinking whatsoever. My
    doubts go much furthur back than my friendship with her. She never said one
    bad word againt the witnesses. She asked me many times if I would like to go
    to church with her, but I never did, nor do I now have any desire to.

    I did not dedicate my life to an organizition. When I was baptised in 1983
    the baptism questions I said yes to were these:
    "Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs
    salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds
    from him the Father through his son Jesus Christ" and the second question
    "On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have
    you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he
    reveals it through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the
    enlightenment of the holy spirit.?"

    The questions were changed in 1985, and I absolutely would NOT have agreed
    to both of them...only the first. The new questions are thus: "On the basis
    os the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and
    dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?" And the second question "Do
    you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of
    Jehovah's Witnesses in assosiation with God's spirit-directed organization?"

    Christ told his disciples to "baptize in the name of the Father, The Son and
    The holy Spirit" When they (The governing body) changed the questions in
    1985 they effectively replaced the holy spirit with "the spirit directed
    organization" They are placing themselves in the place of intermediary!
    Isn't that like a servent telling telling people that he can only have
    contact with his master if he is there too? You state that Jesus says one is
    for him or against him. Here in lies the problem with Witness thinking.
    Jehovahs Witnesses equate faithfulness to *THE OGANIZATION* with
    faithfulness to Jesus! That is DEFINATELY a different gospel than the one
    the apostles preached!

    Matthew 24:48-51 says:
    But if that slave should say in his heart, "My master is delaying" and
    should start to beat his fellow slave, and should eat and drink with the
    confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he
    does not expect him an in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him
    with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the unfaithful
    ones.

    I know that the society has applied this to those who don't except
    completely their teachings. However...of the two slaves depicted in the
    parable, which one indicates that he had a preconceived idea of a certain
    time in which his master might arrive??? It was NOT the faithful slave. The
    evil slave would not have felt that his master was delaying unless he
    expected him within a certain time period. The faithful slave is not
    represented as having any particular idea of how long his master might be
    away.

    You make it sound like I have been have been engaging in something horrible!
    I EMPHATICALLY state that this is competely and utterly not true. My only
    crime is THINKING!

    As someone who was raised as a Jehovah's Witness from the time they were 3
    years old, I was not allowed ANY other options. I was not allowed to think
    beyond a certain boundry. When you are told from the time you are a baby
    that the sky is green, you are going to believe that the sky is green. That
    doesn't make it so....

    If you consider me apostate which according the the definition in the
    dictionary is one who renunciates a religious faith, or abandonment of a
    previous loyalty, then so to was Paul an apostate. He abandoned his Judaism.
    Any early christian would be considered thus in that respect.

    I personally find the term ugly and would not use it do describe myself or
    the apostles, it is only those who are scared of the real truth that resort
    to name calling. The real truth has nothing to fear! I know there is nothing
    I can say to make you understand where I'm coming from, as evidenced by the
    appalled tone in your letter, so I will stop here. I expected as much, and
    that is what I got.

    I know that she is going to go straight to the gestapo with this, but I'm to the point where I almost don't care....almost. I absolutely refuse to go to any inquisitions that they might be brewing up. Which after reading many of your posts, I can see will lead to my DF in absentia. I'm just glad that it has taken me only 37 years to WAKE UP instead of the 60 that it took Ray, and some even longer.

    (Sigh) I know this will be tough on my family (My mom, dad and brother and my husbands mom and dad) But I'm about 100% sure that they will still talk to me. My MILs sister is disfellowshipped and they still talk to her :) When they want to know what happened I will show them all the letters that I have written and tell them to read CofC and ISofCF for themselves. Who knows, maybe this will open the door to leading others in my family out of this mind control garbage.

    Wish me well and maybe pop a few prayers in there too.

    Thanks for listening

    BW

  • Fredhall
    Fredhall

    BW,

    Pretty cool sister.

  • Pierced Angel
    Pierced Angel

    Wow, you've done it alright. She's got it all down on paper now, yikes! ;-)
    I'm a few steps behind you just waiting for the similar situation to occur. It must feel good getting that off your chest and telling her how you feel. I'm dying to do that, but it's been a month since anyone has contacted me. Either they are forgetting about me or they'll be pounding on my door this weekend.

    You gave her plenty of reasons why you should leave,but obviously she is blinded and believes this organization is giving her the truth. Too bad, but maybe you'll be able to help pave the way for your family. I hope you're right and that they continue to speak to you. Just be there in case someone needs to talk to you. I turned to my aunt when I started questioning things because I knew that even though she was now "apostate" that she was very loving and kind to everyone and I knew I could approach her. Just be there and be strong. You've encouraged me and it helps hearing what you've just gone through.

    Anne

    "Too much of a good thing, is wonderful."

    Mae West

  • hippikon
    hippikon

    Yep I think youve gone and done it now! Good letter though - I don't see how any intelegent person can read it and not agree.

  • MadApostate
    MadApostate

    As you indicate, your written response is all that is needed to convict you on the charge of apostasy.

    I wonder if this is a new strategy of the Borg to ferret out apostates from amongst the inactives.

    Three weeks ago, I also received an email from an old JW acquaintance whom had never before emailed me. (Supposedly got my address from a relative.) It made various inquiries whether I would ever come back to the KH, as well as several questions which slyly invited my comments regarding my opinions of WTS beliefs. I telephoned the person instead of responding by email, and tried to pick my words carefully. Although I did let them know rather quickly that I was not planning on returning anytime soon, they really did not seem as interested about my welfare on the phone as they did in the email. I had already suspected they were only looking for hard evidence t use against me. After learning of your situation, I wonder if this is occurring all over?

  • betweenworlds
    betweenworlds

    Hey Anne,

    It did feel very good to get it off my chest. It has been about 2 years now that I have just been pretending and giving fake answers just to appease the them. I couldn't pretend anymore. I'm glad I have encouraged you. I know that this move isn't for everyone And many here suggest just sailing (drifting) quietly along. I just personally couldn't do it anymore. Thanks for your kind words, and i wish you well in your situation. Let us know how you make out! {{hugs}}

    Hey Mad,

    I know they already kind of knew something was up and I bet anything they asked this sister to try to get something out of me. Boy did they get a scoop! hehehe. Washington Post eat your heart out :)

    Hip,

    Thanks for the encouragement.

  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman

    BW, things always seem to occur for a reason. As MadApostate brought out, there seems to be a trend beginning in the BOrg to ferret out those who might possibly be capable of influencing active JWs simply because they are only inactive, but not yet officially DFed.

    In the short run, this is an effective strategy in that it limits, once again, the contact active JWs have with those who have "crossed over". However, in the long run, JWs may begin to question why so many are getting DFed simply because they do not go to the Hall. After all, you haven't openly preached against the BOrg...you simply answered some questions. This is usually known as entrapment.

  • rem
    rem

    Bravo!

    Those letters you wrote were excelent! You have a talent for explaining things clearly and concisely. I wrote a similar letter, but it was to myself. I gave it to my parents. My father turned it into the elders. They had a meeting with me, but I've not been DA'd or DF'd. They know where I'm coming from and their viewpoint is that as long as I'm not a threat to the congregation, I'm not an apostate. I just have MAJOR doubts.

    My wife and I stopped attending meetings months ago and I've been inactive for over a year. The elders and the CO have stopped by from time to time. Thankfully I haven't been home. I think you may be able to avoid DF or DA even with this letter if you play it cool. But then again, maybe it doesn't even really matter. I've found that even though I'm not DF'd or DA'd I have little to no contact with my old friends. We've made new "worldly" friends and life has been great!

    Wishing you the best,

    rem

    "Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so."
    ..........Bertrand Russell

  • bboyneko
    bboyneko

    You'll only be completley free when you completley let go and leave 100%. That was your first step. Welcome to life :)

  • Kent
    Kent

    I'd say you pretty muche summed it all up, my friend. Well done, and welcome to the club :))

    Yakki Da

    Kent

    "The only difference between God and Adolf Hitler is that God is more proficient at genocide."

    Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
    http://watchtower.observer.org

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