yes to keep the model of perfection is a terrible weight to bear.
Yeah, it's called being DYSFUNCTIONAL.
Dysfunctional relationships rarely end well.
-ithinkisee
A newbie's impression on this board, pros and cons
by smelly onions 293 Replies latest jw experiences
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ithinkisee
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whyamihere
Let's put the FUN back into DYSFUNCTIONAL!
Brooke
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smelly onions
However, many on this board, myself included, were pioneers, servants, elders, bethelites, etc. So we invested a lot into the organization only to find out that much of what we were taught was false.
Yeah, Amac if you invested alot and lost everything it is disastrous. It's like those folks at Enron who after 30 years of work saw their retirements go into the sea.
Does anyone know the whereabouts of Rene Vazquez?
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Rod P
Smelly,
I have read all of the posts on this thread, and agree with and certainly empathize with most all of them. I am glad to see that you were willing to back-track on a number of your presumptuous opening remarks, and then later appeared to be more willing to listen to reason and relate to some of the abuses that people have suffered at the hands of the JW Organization. These abuses and injustices were the direct result, not just of policies and teachings emanating from the top echelon of that Organization. They were also the result of those leaders in position of power and influence over the Rank and File, who abused that authority by inflicting their base desires upon the helpless. After this was exposed, JW Officialdom complicitly tried to sanction, condone, tolerate and cover-up such felonious behavior in order to protect its questionable precious reputation as Jehovah God's True Channel. Fortunately, in time, this all became high profile media events, which exposed these goings on, so that now they are forced to deal with it by turning a lot of these guys in to the legal authorities. And I say that it is high time they did!
There is one thing, though, that I think needs to be brought out more fully, or at least put under the spotlight for a few minutes here:
It's about human imperfection. Yes, we all have it, and since all institutions are made up of human beings, therefore they are subject to that same imperfection. That implies that we should be tolerant and understanding if an Organization makes mistakes.
I would be willing to grant this tolerance and understanding to the Watchtower Society/Governing Body IF they practiced this themselves. The problem is, they have shown time and time again that they are NOT tolerant or understanding. On the contrary, they are one of the most intolerant on the planet, completely devoid of empathy, patience, understanding and love, and choose instead the antithesis of this in a way that is nothing less than fanatical.
They have set themselves up as the one right religion on planet earth. They make unsubstantiated claims to being God's Sole Channel of Communication between God and Man. They and they alone possess the "TRUTH", while everyone else is wrong. Yet they have had to make many changes to their teachings and interpretations and prophetic dates, which they then pronounced as "new truth", for the light is getting brighter and brighter. Yet some of their amendments actually brought them into total alignment and agreement with what other Churches have been teaching all along. In other words, Satan's worldwide empire of false religions has been teaching truths from the Bible that the Society/Governing Body discovered much later, which they then announced as "new truth". How is it that God's sole channel of communication has been so much farther behind those Churches of Satan, and is only now beginning to "catch up" with them?
In their audacity of claiming to be right, while everyone else is wrong, they have the effrontery, the nerve to condemn and disfellowship anyone who dares to question or doubt any of their teachings. You are, in their eyes, "guilty of independent thought". That is considered "apostate thinking" and is simply not tolerated. The penalty is disfellowshipment, and shunning is the result. It is this policy of shunning that literally rips families apart and destroys lives. It is an intolerance that rivals the intolerance of the Catholic Church of the middle ages at the height of their Inquisition. Yet the Society/Governing Body loudly condemns the lack of tolerance of the Catholic Church, while reserving the right to exercise the same intolerance towards its own JW membership. That is hypocrisy of the highest order. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! That is why I personally hold the Watchtower Society/Governing Body personally responsible for what THEY HAVE DONE AND CONTINUE TO DO TO OTHERS in the name of truth and their God Jehovah. They are the ones who are responsible for this teaching and this policy, and all of the consequences they have set into motion in the lives of so many thousands of individuals over the years.
I for one, will not tolerate their Narrow-Minded, Dogmatic, Judgmental, and Audacious Intolerance. Who do they think they are, anyway? Do they really think they have some special, favorite position and relationship with God before every other man and woman on earth? Yes, unfortunately, that IS how they see themselves, as reflected in their teachings.
So yes, we here who are responsible for our own actions, need to accept that responsibility over our own lives. However, it is equally true that the Society/Governing Body must also take responsibility for the heartbreak and pain that they have inflicted on the members of their own flock over the years. They are responsible for the things that they teach. They are responsible for their rules and punishments that they dictate and dish out behind their veil of anonymity, wreaking so much pain and havoc on countless lives. They are responsible for the thousands of deaths they have been instrumental in causing as a direct result of their doctrine on blood transfusions. They are responsible for teaching their sincere followers so many different prophetic dates, creating the impression that the world is about to end, and the Big A is just around the corner, so don't bother getting a real education, or pursue a career, or plan for a retirement fund. And now there are many thousands of families who have to live with the fact that their retirement years are upon them, and they will have to live in relative poverty, all because they believed in this Organization that steered them all wrong, creating false expectations combined with poor advice. The list of indictments could literally go on and on. I just want you to see that it is time you held this JW Organization responsible for the things that they created and taught and perpetuated, and the negative and serious impacts they have had on people's lives as a result. Open your eyes and see!
Rod P.
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ithinkisee
I knew a guy name Rene Ruiz at Bethel. Major S.R. (for those of you who were/are Bethelites you know what that means)
-ithinkisee
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Panda
Smelly (you see you already have a nickname on JWD) , Whether or not you are a troll I am glad you have come to watch. Maybe even sharing this web address with some of your friends would be good too. Almost everyone on this discussion will allow for your antics. You see this place is for every opinion. And even when you are an apologist for the WTBTS; we remember when we were the same and will joke with you and show you patience until you're plumbed out of "answers." You probably already know this but people who have all of the answers are egomaniacal demegogues who in fact know far far less than they claim. Often an education will relieve these tendencies.
Please don't go away. If you have something to say then say it. If it's what you truly believe we will either read or ignore your threads. I will pass on this one bit of Coffee House philosophy: You are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts.
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poppers
Hey Rod P,
I like your style of writing and reasoning - rock on. -
JT
the problem i see is that then the wt would have to admit that former disgruntled members and apostates changed church policy, something i dont see humans doing in any org.
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i fully agree, and is it not sad how the wt often cousel members to be humble enough to admit they are wrong and not let pride stand in the way- pot calling kettle black mindset-
yes to keep the model of perfection is a terrible weight to bear. and yes they have kept this image for years, decades etc,
excellent point it is all an "IMAGE"
it maybe that these lawsuits will put a crack in that dam and the whole house of cards might fall.
I don't know due to the step taken to break the org up into smaller pc since 2000 with all the new corp-
i personally know 4 of the wt lawyers, i used to work with 2 of them when i was at bethel and currently the legal dept and accountants run bethel for all pratical purposes, in the usa courts are lerry, even though catholic church has been hit hard, the courts in general shy away from relgion, only in child abuse cases have courts gotten involved.
do you mind if i may ask, have you ever read ray franz book? the reason i ask is he goes into issues and matters that the avg jw would never know due to not having access to body of elders letters, meeting with co and do, etc- one of the first things i did was confirm the ref he provide, it was very interesting
for a person who wants to know why so many folks are ticked, well his book will show you why-
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but if the catholics who have burned people at the stake by the millions during the inquisition still has billion members then i dont think the org will just disappear either.
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i agree with you 110% wt is not going anywhere
religion for most folks while claiming that truth and accuracy are all important- it often times is not, it is more emotional, facts proof documentation oftentimes mean nothing- i have had fellow elders tell me point blank, "JACE even if what you say is true I don't want to even know"
all this from folks who claim that "TRUTH" is the most important thing- smile
enjoyed your comments
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JT
Yeah, Amac if you invested alot and lost everything it is disastrous. It's like those folks at Enron who after 30 years of work saw their retirements go into the sea.
#### many of us have invested alot and know alot-
pioneer, bethelite, elder,hlc- and tons of "Privileges" on both the circuit, district and international level
many here are not dfed for doing something "Wrong", in fact we used to df folks ourselves
i merely was wiling to take a step back and ask the questions i was forbidden to ask despite who i was
so if i could not ask question i knew rank and file jw could not
i was told by many in key positions both at bethel and the local level
JACE you better leave that alone, i wouldn't go there if i were you, etc
and all the questions were questions that anyone should have been able to freely ask without fear of reprisal
so keep in mind:
The Freedom to Think means:
"I'd rather have Questions that I can't Answer ----Than Questions, I can't Ask.
(or Answers that I can't Question)."
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free2beme
I am new and I see your point. I do notice though that your post do not get noticed as much as the veterans, but that is a common issue on boards. I think the bitter behavior and upset posters is a little more common on ex-JW boards, but again, by no means is it not normal for message boards. Read what you like and ignore the rest. Enough topics come by here to make it always interesting reading. Kind of like a newspaper, I only read about 20% or less of it.