How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?

by frankiespeakin 57 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Rod P

  frankiespeaking,

  I looked up the site www.freeminds.org as provided by garybus.

  The first thing I noticed was that none of the 10 Governing Body members are Directors or Officers of any of those corporations listed. So, on the face of things, there does not appear to be a direct connection between the GB and the other corporations. Given the different directors and officers in each company, they may actually be dealing at arm's length from each other, which ensures a high level of autonomy for each entity. However, what we do not see is the Share Structure, which will tell the real story about ownership and control. For example, does one corporation own the shares of another corporation here, thus creating a Parent-Subsidiary relationship, which means the Parent would have certain power and control over its subsidiary (depending on a number of things).

  Now Blondie has pointed out an important distinction, and that is about Non-Profit entities. I do not have knowledge as to whether these entities are registered as Non-Profit Organizations or Charities. I can tell you in Canada that any non-profit entities must be incorporated under a Provinical Society's Act, which is a different set of laws than a Province's Company Act.

  So I am not sure if you can have a company incorporated under company law in the USA that is also registered as a non-profit entity, or whether it is formed under different laws like in Canada.

  I am quite dubious about the NGBM forming an alliance against the aging GB successfully. No-one from one corporation can go around pouncing on members of another company. You can be sure they have some pretty smart lawyers behind all this who have set up the necessary safeguards, checks and balances, so that each entity can rise or fall on its own without necessarily endangering the others. One of the reasons for having so many companies has to do with the protection of assets. Also, some states require you to have a company set up in that state in order to do "business" in that state. (I have some Canadian clients, for instance, who tried to register to do business in California. We were told it was mandatory to have a California company for us to do business in that state, and hence we complied.)

  Companies are separate "persons" in law. One company cannot just tell another one what to do. A Director or CEO of Company A has no jurisdiction over Company B. In other words, the hostile takeover and/or control of a company has to basically come from inside the company, not outside. On the other hand, if there are certain agreements in place, setting out various terms, conditions, parameters, covenants, obligations, etc. these can be enforced by and between Companies, but only in terms of the Agreement.

  I am quite curious as to what legal instruments or mechanisms the GB may or may not have with all of these Watchtower corporations. If anyone from any of the other corporations were to try some sort of power play on the GB, what could the GB do in defence or retaliation? I am pretty sure the GB have the necessary mechanisms in place to protect themselves and their positions.

  Rod P.
• 

  JT

  Rod

  i understand exactly what you are talking about in terms of how your typical company is set up- wt is not your typical company-

  the most important point that you are missing in your understanding is how the org actually works

  le me give you an example of how the mayor of washington dc set himself up for office

  his name was marion barry the mayor of washington dc, what he did was give out gov jobs to tons of folks so that almost every single black person had a family member or friend who worked for the gov, so when some dude ran for office talking about cutting gov, he was sure to lose

  well wt is much the same way, you need to keep in mind that this org is built on years of demostrated loyalty and fear of displeasing, in fact one of the facets of this org is to turn folks in who show signs of wavering- so a CO woud turn in a DO with the hopes that he could get his job-

  i was in a hall with 5 former bethelits on the body, we ran our hall like a little bethel- one of the guys was a voting member of the org, goes up every oct to vote now let me share with you why what you are describing has little if any chance in my view of working- the gb are safe and sound as well as their key men

  keep in mind that every single voting memeber (share holder) is hand picked by the GB themselves

  and these are the same guys who would turn around and vote for the gb to hold all officers postions for decades- so how can you lose if you get to pick the folks who will now vote for you

  now keep in mind that these are not just reg old runof the mill jw- ever single one of them have demostrated thru years of being real "Society Men"

  - in fact almost every single one is in "Special full time service" - CO- do -branch committee- special pioneers and bethelites , now all of these guys have major roles in their branches or on the road, and their very lively hood is at stake

  everyone of them fully understood the reason that the GB are not holding positions or titles, it is all for legal reasons and they is why jw are quick to tell you if the wt shut down friday the GB or leadership of the org would carry on

  I personally know 90% of the men in those positions, many were my new boy instructors or mentors

  can you say Dyed in the wool society men

  you need to understand the mindset of a jw in that position, if he was approched by a fellow member trying to cook up some off the wall idea, due to the years of indoctrination the chances are greater that he would turn in his fellow corp member than go along, for he knows he would be rewarded with more power and position for demostrating his loyalty

  there are about 500 voting members /share holders, they all owe their privieleges to stay in speical fulltime service to the gb

  let me break it down for you, how long have you been a jw? how many resolutions have you seen where 1% of the congregation voted differently than the elders

  you need to understand and i asked my fellow elder who is a voting member how the votes go down

  500 to 0 for all officers every year since he has been voting and he has been voting since the 70's

  can you imagine what would happen to 10 CO 7 DO and 3 Branch members who voted differently in oct-

  they would be reassigned back to the reg pioneer work in Novemvber, which means after 30+yrs of being taken care of by the org, they now got to get a JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  so what do you think is the likely hood of some revolt at that level in the org, when every single man who is voting is dependant on staying in the goood graces of the very men they must vote for thru the USA legal system of corp structure

  in fact i was told they typcial annual Business meeting takes less than 10min, the other 2hours at the annual meeetings is spent slapping each otehr on the back telling war stories of what is happening in each branch memebers respective countries

  so while i fully undestand what you are saying, i would be willing to put my money where my mouth is due to the very nature of how High Control groups control their members- and there is no difference for those who hold positions that were given to them

  as they say, the gov can give it to you and the gov can take it away---

  if you ask anyone who knows the following men listed below, what is the likelyhood of these men turning on the org and trying to get thier fellow elders to join them- i dare say 99% of the folks you ask about these men will tell you that just as the wt bible used to be green, these men have GReen wt blood flowing in their veins- smile

  anyone who knows these men will tell you they eat sleep and breath wt

  President Don A. Adams
  Vice Presidents Robert W. Wallen, William F. Malenfant
  Secretary/Treasurer Richard E. Abrahamson
  Directors Danny L. Bland, Philip D. Wilcox, John N. Wischuk

  Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. (Incorporated 1909)

  President Max H. Larson
  Vice Presidents George M. Couch, Lonnie R. Schilling
  Secretary/Treasurer Gerald F. Simonis
  Directors Gerald D. Grizzle, David G. Sinclair, Robert M. Pevy

  Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses (Incorporated 2000)

  President William L. Van De Wall
  Vice Presidents Charles I. Woody, Leon Weaver, Jr.
  Secretary/Treasurer William H. Nonkes
  Directors Harold K. Jackson, Merton V. Campbell, Stanley F. Weigel

  Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses (Incorporated 2000)

  President Patrick J. LaFranca
  Vice Presidents Peter D. Molchan, Ralph E. Walls
  Secretary/Treasurer Joseph D. Mercante
  Directors Marvin G. Smalley, Kenneth J. Pulcifer, Eugene D. Rosam, Jr.

  Kingdom Support Services, Inc. (Incorporated 2000)

  President Harold L. Corkern
  Vice Presidents Alan D. Janzen, Robert L. Butler
  Secretary/Treasurer Alexander W. Reinmueller
  Directors James F. Mantz, Jr., Thomas Kalimeris, Alan G. Browning

  Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New Jersey, Inc. (Incorporated 1955)

  President Charles V. Molohan
  Vice Presidents James L. Bauer, J. Richard Brown
  Secretary/Treasurer Alan K. Flowers
  Directors Allen E. Shuster, David L. Walker, Vernon C. Wisegarver

  Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Florida, Inc. (Incorporated 1986)

  President Leonard R. Pearson
  Vice Presidents Alejandro G. Rodriguez, Maurice C. Turcot
  Secretary/Treasurer Mark L. Questell
  Directors Jim Moody, Sr., Anselm J. Packnett, Donald R. Krebs

  Valley Farms Corporation (Incorporated 1987)

  President Charles J. Rice
  Vice Presidents Kent E. Fischer, Robert L. Rains
  Secretary/Treasurer Albert L. Harrell
  Directors John R. Strandberg, Samuel D. Buck, Louis A. Travis
• 

  JT

  You can be sure they have some pretty smart lawyers behind all this who have set up the necessary safeguards, checks and balances, so that each entity can rise or fall on its own without necessarily endangering the others. One of the reasons for having so many companies has to do with the protection of assets.

  #######

  now you are talking, all of the men serving in these new corp understand that they are merely part of a Front company to protect Jehovah's assets,

  I have buddies still at bethel and we still talk and they refer to is as "Protecting Kingdom Interest"

  so these men understand they are no more than a Paper tiger and they don't mind they veiw it as a privelged the same way jw have went to prison and died for the org over the years

  so why would you not be loyal given the chance to protect jehovahs; assets and this is how these men view it-

  not so much personal $$$$$ gain as much as power prestige and glory and when you are flown around the world stand before 10s of 1000s, taken to the best places in the world - have the best of friendds- nothing to worry about, why would you try to come up with some off the wall idea of stealing the corp from the wt lawyers???????????

  only to be kicked out of bethel, no job, no money, no friends and no one to help you get started- nope such an idea would frighten the avg bethel elder to death
• 

  Rod P

  
  JT,

  Thank you very much for enlightening us all by putting the human dynamic on this corporate structure with its "carrot and stick" modus operandi. This is the missing piece of the puzzle that I was wrestling with. It sounds like you were privy to a lot of insider info that you were privy to that the rest of us peons were not.

  I understand clearly now the motivations and structural relationships of the men in position that would remain loyal to the death, while being at peril if any one of them became disloyal.

  Do you know if these men also have shares in any of these corps. and if they did apostasize or die, how they could be bought out or settled vis-a-vis their estates? It's the legal mechanisms and structures that especially interests me now, in light of what you have shared on the human motivation level. I am trying to penetrate and get behind the corporate veil(s).

  If we can just lay out all of the pieces of the puzzle, then we can figure out how this 3-dimensional chess game works. I think we're half-way there now.

  Rod P.
• 

  Pole

  fs wrote:
  
  sincere ass kissers.
  
  Haha. I love the phrase. Sincere ass kissers.
  
  
  Pole
• 

  blondie

  Do you know if these men also have shares in any of these corps

  
  

  
  The laws of non-profit corporations do not allow the corporation officers to hold shares.

  A Nonprofit corporation, however, can not issue shares and cannot pay dividends. In addition, under the Federal Tax code Section 501(c)(3), a tax-exempt corporation cannot pay dividends AND, upon dissolution, must distribute its remaining assets to another nonprofit group.

  http://www.mycorporation.com/nonprofitinfo.htm

  BTW, all the WTS corporations are registered as non-profit corporations in the US (and probably under the non-profit laws in Canada and the UK, etc. which may have some differences). I'm sure it is a tax thing.

  JT is totally correct about the loyalty of the men on this corporations. They have been weeded out and hardened into the company line of thinking and have everything to lose power, authority, and whatever financial perks they have to return home to depend on the generosity of family and friends; they have no social security having taken a vow of poverty under the tax laws, none having been paid in by their "employer." Ed Dunlap was hanging wallpaper into his late 70's to support himself and his wife.

  If want to know the legal way this runs, check up on non-profit corporate law in your area. If you want to understand how the WTS controls these men, read JT's post.

  Blondie
• 

  frankiespeakin

  JT,

  Thanks for the run down of things from your persective. I would like to ask this question for I feel it is important to our subject here:

  How long ago did you leave bethel?

  The reason I ask that is because things are always changing especially since the internet.
• 

  Rod P

  Thanks Blondie,

  That clarifies a lot of things around the Share thing. You are right, it is about corporations and taxes, whereas non-profit organizations are exempt from being subject to income taxes. Of course there cannot be dividends issued, since that represents a distribution of profits- which is contrary to the objectives of a non-profit organization. They can and do, however, use the donations and returns on investments as resources to further the aims of the entity, to pay overhead and operating costs (including staff salaries and benefits and payroll taxes), and any monies left over can be used to acquire assets.

  With respect to the US WT companies, I would still like to find out about what shares are issued to who, given that they cannot be issued to any officers or directors of a given non-profit corporation. There is still the legal side of the question of effective control of these entities here. Knowing this can tell quite a story.

  Rod P.
• 

  JT

  Do you know if these men also have shares in any of these corps. and if they did apostasize or die, how they could be bought out or settled vis-a-vis their estates?

  the only annual meeting of any of the corp that has any real interest is the one held in Oct, the annual meetings of all the other 100+ corps around the world are merely formalities-

  if one is dfed, or left the org, from what i understand there being voting members turns out to carry litte or no weight, they don't have "stock or shares " in the sense that most folks would think of like Microsoft or Dell where you or i own 300,000 shares- that is not the way it is in the setup that the legal dept has structured for any of the wt corps-

  you may recall the boman tx incendent where the elders left the org and took the kingdom hall, well wt restructured all ownship arrangements with halls since that time so that in the final end of the atter it all goes back to MAMA org

  It's the legal mechanisms and structures that especially interests me now, in light of what you have shared on the human motivation level. I am trying to penetrate and get behind the corporate veil(s).

  ######

  you and 1000's of other lawyers as well- smile
• 

  JT

  JT is totally correct about the loyalty of the men on this corporations. They have been weeded out and hardened into the company line of thinking and have everything to lose power, authority, and whatever financial perks they have to return home to depend on the generosity of family and friends; they have no social security having taken a vow of poverty under the tax laws, none having been paid in by their "employer." Ed Dunlap was hanging wallpaper into his late 70's to support himself and his wife

  #########

  bingo, without understanding the powerful influence that High control groups excercise over their members it is very difficult to grasp certain aspect of the entire setup of jw esp as you move up the food chain

  let me illustrate it on a local level,

  an elder is given a part on the district program and he must chose between working that weekend and doing is talk at the district- how many times have we heard of the jw who quit the job instead

  now if you are new to the jw, you don't hear of that much today, the new breed of jw don't do that too often. but when i was coming along during the 60-70 andf 80 it was very commmon to have person relating how to be here today relating this exp has resulted in me losing my job and when i go home from this convention i have no job, but i know jah will provide

  ask any old timer and they will tell you - that stories of jw quitting their jobs was done all the time

  many bro gave up raises, so they could keep thier titles, MS elder, etc- so the wt has effectively replaced the love of money with the love of position and power

  heck look at Forbes he wanted a job that paid only $200,000 a year and he spent $60,000,000 of his own money to run for the job of president of the usa, and why, not for the money, but the POWER

  even bill gates as the riches man on earth does not shut down air ports when he flies0 Air Force one requires that every single airport be shut down when it comes in to land- yes for some persons power is more important than money-