How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?

by frankiespeakin 57 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  JT

  I would even think many of these so-called "company men" that are corporation member are playing the hand they have been dealt,, with a long pent up anger plotting and just waiting for the exact right time to strike. I imagine many in the legal department are of this type,(how could anybody in legal not know it is a sham is beyond me).
  

  #######

  you are missing the point my friend by the time you reach that level in the org, you know it is bogus,

  you need to go out this weekend and rent the movie 1984- there is one scene in the movie that says it all

  some of you may recall this one scene, when i saw it i was like -- that is the org, that is the org

  in the movie everyone is required to listen to Propaganda day and night by means of everyones house has a PA speaker that just blast speeches all day and night and they are forbidden under punishment of imprsionment if they turn off the speaker blasting

  well in one scene, there is this guy who is being considered to be "MOVED UP the corp ladder and he enters the office of a high ranking person and the guy walks over and turns OFF THE Speaker

  and they guy is like - you are not suppose to do that we canget into trouble and the dude just waves his hand as it were and says "WE" up here don't have to listen to that stuff, it is just for the pions baically

  so my point is you keep refering to these "Disgruntle ones, angry ones, folks upset etc"

  well at that level of the org, they already know that you don'[t have to go in service , to the meeting regualy,or read all of the mags each month- they have a different set of rules for those at the top

  cae inpoint, if my roomate wants to miss meeting - he just says I"m staying at bethel tonight to work on some society business"

  who is going to question him???????????

  so i hate to burst your bubble, all this anger and disgruntle stuff you mention, well my friend for those men at that level they are happy as can be, now if there are anyone disgruntle, it is the guys who got OVERLOOKED and got what we usd to call at bethe THE SHAFT- PROBLEM IS none of those guys are in key decision making roles, that is why they are pissed

  so for those kind of guys you are right all they cando is grin and bear it, but since the are not power brokers and owe bethel for the very bed they sleep on they must sell their souls

  and i will agree with you on that, many bethelites know, but due to not having anywhere to go, they just stay

  in fact i finally understood why when i was growing up all the former bethelites left the "truth" when they came back home, now i know why,

  they saw so much "Sh#t" when they were at bethel, the racism, back bitting, the power moves, asskissing ,brownosing,etc that when theyreturn backhomeand the reg jw are like

  didn't you feel closeer to jehovah by being at bethel they are like what the Fu%K are you talking about, is their mindset many times- due in part to seeing that bethel is not like one is lead to beleve before going

  in fact they teach you at behel not to tell folks back home of the bad things you see, it could be discouraging

  so when you go home and 50 friends are around you thinking that each day the GB emittes some holy spirit off onto and you know the real deal that sometimes they will not even speak to you on the elevatore and you can;t tell the friends back home, you quickly see the lie that is told and the image that is create

  the same as an image is created about the congo being so loving and kind, the same can be said about bethel, it paints a picture of deep spiritual enviroment-

  yet i saw more KEGS of beer at bethel than i had ever seen back in NC, in fact most eldrs would never drink in front of pub when i was growing up and to go to bethel and see "Spritual Men" knock down more beer than "Cayotoe /carzy"

  smile
• 

  frankiespeakin

  JT,

  I have a couple of questions to ask you about your last post but first let me ask you an unrelated question. I had a room mate at bethel(1974 - 76) called John Parham, he was climbing up the organizational ladder, he was from San Antonio TX. Was he still at bethel durring your tour of duty? Do you know him? I know that there were lots of people at bethel when you were thier and there is a good chance you might not know him.

  Now to your post:

  you are missing the point my friend by the time you reach that level in the org, you know it is bogus,

  so my point is you keep refering to these "Disgruntle ones, angry ones, folks upset etc...well at that level of the org, they already know that you don'[t have to go in service , to the meeting regualy,or read all of the mags each month- they have a different set of rules for those at the top

  How can you be so sure? Are you meaning to tell me that your contact who has some kind of position at bethel knows it's not the truth but he hypocritically goes along with it just for the perks of having some type of position in the organization? If that is true it is pretty pathetic, I take it he is not very old yet and can do better for himself if he left "full time service" and started thinking about his future, before it is too late, then hanging out with the big boys at bethel for whatever perks. It just don't add up.

  And How do you know for sure your friend really doesn't beleive it is the truth did he come out and tell you or are you just assuming he doesn't beleive it anymore?
• 

  frankiespeakin

  bttt
• 

  potleg

  I think JT's assesment is spot on. I was at the London Bethel for a few years and it was no spiritual haven. I had some good times but there was always the fear and absolute disgrace that came with being kicked out for breaking the rules. I did not find the "family" in the "Bethel Family". I think the internet is weakening the next generation of dubs rather han causing a mass exodus and since the WT is all about mass control, in the future I think their message and methods will become less appealing and more irrelevent.
• 

  JT

  JT,

  I have a couple of questions to ask you about your last post but first let me ask you an unrelated question. I had a room mate at bethel(1974 - 76) called John Parham, he was climbing up the organizational ladder, he was from San Antonio TX. Was he still at bethel durring your tour of duty? Do you know him?

  ###

  was he in brooklyn or the farm, i knew 2 Parham guys a white dude up at the farm and a black guy from philly

  Now to your post:

  you are missing the point my friend by the time you reach that level in the org, you know it is bogus,

  so my point is you keep refering to these "Disgruntle ones, angry ones, folks upset etc...well at that level of the org, they already know that you don'[t have to go in service , to the meeting regualy,or read all of the mags each month- they have a different set of rules for those at the top

  How can you be so sure?

  i used to see it all the time, the diffenrent rules, did you read my bio-=- when i worked up in the Sky boxes at the district convention a s part of the convention office - they live in a whole different world, while the avg jw is out in the sun trying to pay attention to boring talks the "Heavies" up in the sky boxes are laughing and telling exp of of how someone bought them a expensive suit or paid for a cruise to the island- while other jw are told to sit in the sun and don't get up, we used to eat and drink the entire program-

  I have no intention of getting into a pissing match with you, if you had caught me about 7yrs ago when i came on the net and i would try to relate what i knew i used to get upset when folks like you were like_

  that can't be true - how do we know that you know these things, you could be pullling our legs, well

  i have been at this religion too long, if a persons wants to know what goes on behind the curtain i will tell them what i know,

  if the info i not to ones liking or one doesn't want to believe it, that is fine with me- i have learned over the years of being on the net, provide the info to folks and what they do with it or believe or not believe is up to them-

  ###

  "Are you meaning to tell me that your contact who has some kind of position at bethel knows it's not the truth but he hypocritically goes along with it just for the perks of having some type of position in the organization?"

  * yes that is my point

  "I f that is true it is pretty pathetic,"

  I agree i would ask him how could he live with knowing that when he steps on a stage of 50,000 folks he is blowing smoke in folks eyes-

  i have been told many times, "hey look it keeps the friends out of trouble by keeping them busy selling books every weekend instead of being able to enjoy life to some degree-

  "take it he is not very old yet and can do better for himself if he left "full time service" and started thinking about his future, before it is too late, then hanging out with the big boys at bethel for whatever perks."

  ####

  you tell my my dear friend - where could a black man go at 47yrs of age, no college, no skills and get to live the life that the heavies live at bethel- for FREE-

  "t just don't add up."

  of coiurse it does it is call selling your soul, why do you think ray franz book is called "Crisis of Conscience"

  when you come to learn certain things about the org, you face a personal crisis and you must decide what do i do, do i take a stand even if it means the loss of personal gain, family and so called friends or do i keep my mouth shut- sad to say many choice to keep their mouth shuts especially if they percieve they have alot to lose, such as a with -50 yr of betjhel service

  How do you know for sure your friend really doesn't beleive it is the truth did he come out and tell you or are you just assuming he doesn't beleive it anymore

  $$$$$$$ he told me sitting in my living room, that he knows alot of the stuff we teach is not supported by the bible but we NEED RULES to keep the friends in line

  i hate to burst y our bubble my friend but there are folks at bethel who know this whole program is bogus, i sorry if that simple truth hurst,

  i recall when the wt changed the generation dogma, i had mentioned it to former bethelite who is a co in Detriot now- that ray franz had said that in th elate 70's they knew the dogma had no legs but kept on teaching it, and he was like , yea i had heard that ray said it would end up being changed, he was like "BIG DEAL" if we need to change our dogmas to fit what we are teaching

  i could not beleive it, i was like man we have being tellin folks for years that this was a promise from Jehovah himself and to blow it off with the stroke of a pen as being old and outdated

  so yes there are folks at bethel who sincerly believe with all thier hearts and by the same token there are folks in major power postions who know that the org is hoodwinking and bamboozling the rank and file

  sorry i had to be the to tell you that- :(
• 

  JT

  I was at the London Bethel for a few years and it was no spiritual haven. I had some good times but there was always the fear and absolute disgrace that came with being kicked out for breaking the rules. I did not find the "family" in the "Bethel Family".

  #########

  bingo and this is why it is so important for us who have seen both sides of the org to tell our story

  my wife and i have been dogged as it were by so many folks over the last 8yrs

  you guys need to write a book and tell your story , so this summer we plan on starting it, in fact we plan on taking this Dog and Pony Show on the road

  since many nonjw know that i used to be an elder , many have invited me over the years to come to speak before their groups, churches, etc and tell the story about life as a jw

  and my wife and i have decided that by the of the year, we will have this Dog and Pony Show on the road
• 

  JT

  To be on these corporations they have already proved themselves GB ass-kissers and diehard loyalists ######### excelent point and this is the bottom line, if one fails tounderstand this simple concept that it will indeed be difficult to understand how the org works at that level we have seen elders quit their jobs for 20min district part, why is it so difficult to understand a man who started out in cleaning at bethel now being given the priviledge of running a whole country as a branch overseer would not be loyal to the Hand that Feed him- considering that the same hand can call him into their office and say: "John we feel it would be best for you and becky to return back to Tenn and join the ranks of the Pioneer ministry" But bro i have been at bethel since 1966, we have no family on the outside, we are the only folks in our family in the truth- unfortunately john we will not be able to give you a good recommendation for reappointment as an elder either, but you and becky can pioneer please tell me what this man life is going to be like when he gets to a hall after being a Former Branch committe member and now he can't even read the WT on sunday??when the co rolls in town,he is calling bethel to ask whats up with john and they will say KEEP and eye on him he has shown signs of doubting the org,so we let him at least pioneer this has happened so many times and so when others see these guys get th shaft for challengeing the org- do you think they are moved to try it themselves I THINK NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
• 

  frankiespeakin

  JT,

  so yes there are folks at bethel who sincerly believe with all thier hearts and by the same token there are folks in major power postions who know that the org is hoodwinking and bamboozling the rank and file

  When you first posted to this thread you painted with a wide brush, and insinuated that every one at the upper levels know it is not the truth. I see you are backing away from that position and made some room for the fact that you don't know what the views "every one" at higher levels at bethel are. A kind of black and white point of view.

  You still never answer my question you just used inuendos and beat around the bush. Sorry that you view it as a pissing match because I or perhaps anyone for that matter disagrees with you. I asked as some pertainant questions about your blanket staements and you used the term not wanting to get into a "pissing match" as an excuse to not directly answer the question, and beat around the bush.
• 

  frankiespeakin

  JT,

  so i hate to burst your bubble, all this anger and disgruntle stuff you mention, well my friend for those men at that level they are happy as can be, now if there are anyone disgruntle, it is the guys who got OVERLOOKED and got what we usd to call at bethe THE SHAFT- PROBLEM IS none of those guys are in key decision making roles, that is why they are pissed

  One of the problems I see you have, is that you speak like a know it all.

  To be honest you must realize you can only guess at what motivates those at the higher level of the organization, and to think that they only have this one type of motive is narrow minded thinking. You are trying to fit everyone up thier into your preconcieved mold. What you are doing is projecting your views onto them and not realizeing it. Of course some may have the view point you discribe here but not everyone. You need to open your mind a little and realize these are your projections which may be true in some cases but not in all of them, that's what we term "black and white" thinking.
• 

  JT

  Like i said if you caught me few years ago i would go around and round with you, of course i don;t know what every single person in the org know or feels, for you to conclude that i knew if every single person felt this way or that way would be foolish to say the least

  my point was there are men who write the rules, enforce the rules and would have no problem dfing you and at the same time know many of the things jw teach and beleive are bogus-

  i don;t claim to know it all, sad to say i just happen to be in a postion where i got to see the "Man Behind the Curtain" Up front and person,

  i am slated to do a deposition in ref to how child abuse cases are handled by the elders and how we were instructed to handle such matters

  whether you beleive what i say or not for me at this point in my life really doesn;'t matter, i no longer have the energy or desire to try and "Convince" you of what i know about the org-

  my only suggestion is to continue to educate yourself - i have merely given you a prospective about the org, that I Know you don't know anything about, i was merely trying to provide you with some insight-

  beleive no offense is taken i have been in this same conversation with so many jw in the last 8yrs i can't count it anymore

  if you want speculation and grnd wishes such as "Soon the GB will be taken over by folks at bethel"

  then continue on ,but if you want to know the general mindset of these men, then i will tell you

  like they say Truth is often stranger than Fiction-

  if you like to talk off line feel free i can be reached at [email protected]

  we setup a phone service with unlimited long distance call, cause i am on the phone all the time wiht folks who want to know what little i do know about the org

  we used to host in our home a jw support group for almost yrs in our home

  DF, DA and just plain tired and worn out jw, who wanted toknow were they going crazy , were they the only one who thought so and so

  my wife and i have helped 57 folks leave this org and not just leave, but to understand what they were apart of, and many of them are back in college- pursueing many of their dreams

  because i had always been a very serious jw and a dyed in the wool Society Man, when i left many on both sides of our family wanted to know-

  What in the world would make Jace give up all those privileges in the org-

  As my fatherinlaw said to me in my living room, jace we love you and you have taken care of our daughter for years, but we may not agree with you ,but we at least WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE RAN ACROSS--

  so i told them and where to go to do the research for themselves- and today, my mom, bros, sisters, many cousins as well as my inlaws, my sister in laws, their husband and a number of cousins on my wife side and just like you they said basically the same thing you have said when i told them things about the org

  so i am used to seeing folks have a difficult time dealing with what happens behinds the curtain

  i will tell you as i told my own folks, What you do with this info is up to you, but do me a favor

  print out this thread, put it into an envelope, date it and in 5-10yr from day when you do the needed research to understand this org and how it works you will say:

  "Damn that jace mentioned something along these lines to me back in 2005"

  smile