Can you refute these? (page 3)

googlemagoogle

Nothing wrong with trying to prove our former beliefs wrong.

i just HATE those first time cut'n'paste posts. it takes only a few posts to read to know what this board is about. NEVER a good start.

even if this would be an active JW forum, not one single person would change beliefs after reading that long post.

if you really want to discuss religious issues, you'd be better off joining an active debate and present your views there. then, when people already know you a bit you can start with your OWN topics, almost noone will read cut'n'paste posts. you can provide a link though. if i want to read articles, i can search them on the net.

welcome to the board. and i seriously hope you can get out of your catholic cult too :-)

PaulJ

I guess in this technically advanced age, she has just burst into our bar and said "C'mon then, I'll take on the lot of ya", (with cyber-fists, naturally) The realised ins not a bar full of JW's but a.... oh i dunno... a hairdressers full of ex-jw's.

Id be embarrased too. I like her spirit tho.....

Hondo

GloFishy

Just about every group or organization in the world, from a small 3 man (or woman) run shop to, yes the catholics, the lutherans, the baptists, ...etc., etc. exhibit cultish tendancies, some more than others. The JW's just happen to exhibit just about every cultish trait known to man (identified in Steve Hassan's book, Releasing the Bonds). McDonalds's can even be labeled a cult. They exhibit more than half of the traits (Oh, how holy art thou Ronald McDonald...!!!). The Vatican has no more control over world catholics than any other large organization, religious or non-religious, has over its believers or employees. The don't shun. They don't kick someone out for smoking. They certainly allow criticism, of any doctrine (don't think the JW's allow this). I have had numerous "heated" discussions with priests on biblical doctrine vis-a-vis catholic rules and guidelines.I liked John Paul very much. I'm not sure about the new guy. So far he has not impressed me; he seems too condescending, unlike John Paul. He might grow on me, but for now, he just rubs me the wrong way.

I don't understand you statement that you were "involuntarily baptized a catholic as a baby"... Did you have a choice? Were you involuntarily fed as a baby too? Had you diapers involuntarily changed, or would you rather have done this yourself? Were you involuntarily force to go to kindergarden at age 5? or, did you have a choice? Parents, for good or bad, made your decisions for you, as they did mine. I certainly don't hold it against them. I too was baptized a catholic (I'm more of an agnostic now however, but am thinking of getting back into catholocism) and may be on some obscure listing, but I doubt it, in some, probably long gone, catholic church. I don't think my name is listed on a cultish master listing in the archives of world catholics in Rome, as you seem to imply. If it is, so what.

Take care

myelaine

ANGELS CAN BE CORRUPTED........we are not redeemed with corruptible things(read creatures) but with the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as a lamb WITHOUT blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

love michelle

Hellrider

Good one, Michelle. I sure will be running back to KH any time soon now. Seriously, if you want to have us back in the flock, you have to do better than that. Now, let me ask you ONE question! What is evil, and who created it? Didn`t God Jehovah create everything? Well, what has occured to me lately, is that right and wrong, good and bad, had to exist BEFORE God did...or it had to have been created (as moral possibilities) by God. The point is, in this particular issue, that Satan (Lucifer) CHOSE wrong/bad, whereas Jesus (Michael, in JW teachings) CHOSE right/good. Therefore, right and wrong, bad and good, had to be alternatives created BEFORE the angels, and the humans. Who created it? God?

myelaine

Dear Hellrider,

you said: Therefore, right and wrong, bad and good, had to be alternatives created BEFORE the angels, and the humans. Who created it? God?

O.K....God's word says..(Genesis 1:31) Then God saw EVERYTHING that He had made, and indeed it was very good.

then...(Ezekiel 28:15) You WERE perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was FOUND(not created) in you.

also note that in the New King James version,N I V, and New English Bible Ezekiel 28:14 says you WERE the anointed cherub...

guess what the NWT says....you ARE. scary indeed.

michelle

Hellrider

"(Ezekiel 28:15) You WERE perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was FOUND(not created) in you."

yup, FOUND in me! God put it there, when he created me in his image in his image! That would mean that the tendency towards evil either a) comes from God himself!, or b) evil (as a possible choice) must have been created by God, or that c) that good and evil existed from BEFORE God (that he was not the first or only one that has existed from eternity) ...appeared.

In the words of Metallica: Am I evil? YES I AM! (1983)

vitty

Actually Mary I came here an active witness, but not for long LOL It used to be an active witness site.

I would never have gone on an "apostate" site.

I would like to say that although your post was appreciated, I didnt read it, it was far too long. Keep it short `n sweet

myelaine

Dear Hellrider,

I guess you have made YOUR CHOICE then! Did God choose for you? Did He make you choose evil, as you say it? Or have you taken responsibility for your own action? God knows we can't even direct our own steps.

michelle

Hellrider

Michelle wrote: "also note that in the New King James version,N I V, and New English Bible Ezekiel 28:14 says you WERE the anointed cherub...

guess what the NWT says....you ARE. scary indeed."

...and? This only means that the NWT isn`t even being truthful to the text of the Bible. In fact, the WT has rewritten the Bible, changing passages to make them suit THEIR version of Christianity, instead of adapting their religion to what the Bible ACTUALLY says! The NWT is full of words that you won`t find in the original Bible. I know that WT says that this is the "correct" translation of the Bible from greek, and that all former translations have had flaws/errors. This is just untrue, ask any academic expert on ancient greek and/or theology. Now, THAT`s scary indeed! The sect is just turning even more into a cult than it allready is! And I`ll tell you what`s scary: The NWT resembles in many ways an old Bible-translation by a german-catholic priest named Johannes Greber - who had religious ideas that were very different from that of the Catholic church, and in some ways resembled what JWs believe today. The Watchtower even writes about the ungodlyness of Grebers "bible" in the Watchtower, april 1983! - and Greber himself said that he was in contact with the spirit world (spiritism) when he did his translation work! And still, the NWT is almost the exact same translation as Grebers "bible"!

By the way, I`m not really sure about what you are saying. Are you here to promote "the Truth", bring "dissidents" back into the flock? Or have I misunderstood?

Can you refute these?

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