Was wondering the clarification of a relationship someone can have with their mother if they have been disfellowshipped and the daughter is in good standing with the congregation? The daughter was baptised after the disfellowship. Does this mean the daughter is not to have a relationship with the mother. And the mother may not know and share life experiences with the daughter and her family? Help with this... it is tearing the family apart. The mother does not wish to rejoin the church. She no longer wishes to practice the witness faith, and does encourage her daughter to believe in what she believes in within her witness community? Can they still have a relationship with this dilema?
Need clarification on communication with a disfellowshipped person
by jostes 46 Replies latest social family
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Satanus
If the daughter lives outside of the same house as the mother, then no they can't. If, in the same house, maybe.
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misspeaches
Hi Jostes - and welcome!
It's a little bit of a gray/conscience area... Technically if you are a Jehovah's Witness in good standing you should have limited contact with disphellowshipped or disassociated people. You should not discuss any spiritual matters with them under any circumstances. There have been articles printed by that organisation stating that if you share a house with a disphellowshipped or disassociated person than of course you would maintain contact but not the spiritual stuff. Some families like to apply this princple to family members who live outside of the home in this position also. They choose to maintain contact but not of the JW type.
Hope this helps.
Miss Peaches
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Satanus
She no longer wishes to practice the witness faith, and does encourage her daughter to believe in what she believes in within her witness community?
It sounds like the mother is speaking against the wt. This is considered a very serious offence. It would constitute 'spiritual endangerment' to the daughter. The wt has advised members to hate people like that w a 'pure hate'.
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Satanus
Here are some watchtower quotes:
*** w52 10/1 p. 599 A Strong Refuge Today ***
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Haters of God and his people are to be hated, but this does not mean that we will take any opportunity of bringing physical hurt to them in a spirit of malice or spite, for both malice and spite belong to the Devil, whereas pure hatred does not. We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not fit to live on his beautiful earth.*** w52 10/1 p. 599 A Strong Refuge Today ***
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What do you do with anything loathsome or repugnant that you detest and abhor? The answer is simple. You get away from it or remove it from your presence. You do not want to have anything at all to do with it. This must be exactly our attitude toward the haters of Jehovah. Prophetically it is written: "Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred." (Ps. 139:19-22, AS)*** w52 10/1 p. 600 A Strong Refuge Today ***.
They publish blasphemous lies and reproach the holy name Jehovah. Do we not hate those who hate God? We cannot love those hateful enemies, for they are fit only for destruction. We utter the prayer of the psalmist: "How long, O God, shall the adversary reproach? Shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever? Why drawest thou back thy hand, even thy right hand? Pluck it out of thy bosom and consume them." (Ps. 74:10, 11, AS)
*** w52 10/1 p. 600 A Strong Refuge Today ***
Here the enemies of Jehovah are viewed just like flea-bitten, mangy, scavenger dogs. "Scatter them by thy power, and bring them down, . . . let them even be taken in their pride, and for cursing and lying which they speak. Consume them in wrath, consume them, so that they shall be no more: and let them know that God ruleth in Jacob, unto the ends of the earth." (Ps. 59:4-6, 11-13, AS) These are the true sentiments, desires and prayers of the righteous ones today. Are they yours? You may be sure they will be to the extent you know and love the name Jehovah
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Some jws follow this old directive. The wt became a bit more lenient for a while, during the 70's then hardened again, recently. So, it does depends on the individuals.
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ezekiel3
The most recent directive is quoted below from the 2002 Our Kingdom Ministry. Here the organization tightened the screws:
My comments in red
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km 8/02 pp. 3-4 Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped ***Display
Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped1
The bond between family members can be very strong. This brings a test upon a Christian when a marriage mate, a child, a parent, or another close relative is disfellowshipped or has disassociated himself from the congregation. (Matt. 10:37) How should loyal Christians treat such a relative? Does it make a difference if the person lives in your household? First, let us review what the Bible says on this subject, the principles of which apply equally to those who are disfellowshipped and to those who disassociate themselves.2
How to Treat Expelled Ones: God’s Word commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. . . . Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Cor. 5:11, 13) Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: "Let [the expelled one] be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Jesus’ hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones.—See The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 18-20.3
This means that loyal Christians do not have spiritual fellowship with anyone who has been expelled from the congregation. But more is involved. God’s Word states that we should ‘not even eat with such a man.’ (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. This would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, ball game, or trip to the mall or theater or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.4
What about speaking with a disfellowshipped person? While the Bible does not cover every possible situation, 2 John 10 helps us to get Jehovah’s view of matters: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Commenting on this, The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 25, says: "A simple ‘Hello’ to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"5
Indeed, it is just as page 31 of the same issue of The Watchtower states: "The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshiped, he forfeits much: his approved standing with God; . . . sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives."6
In the Immediate Household: Does this mean that Christians living in the same household with a disfellowshipped family member are to avoid talking to, eating with, and associating with that one as they go about their daily activities? The Watchtower of April 15, 1991, in the footnote on page 22, states: "If in a Christian’s household there is a disfellowshipped relative, that one would still be part of the normal, day-to-day household dealings and activities." Thus, it would be left up to members of the family to decide on the extent to which the disfellowshipped family member would be included when eating or engaging in other household activities. And yet, they would not want to give brothers with whom they associate the impression that everything is the same as it was before the disfellowshipping occurred. [This only applies to a disfellowshipped JW living in the same house.]7
However, The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 28, points out regarding the disfellowshipped or disassociated person: "Former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. . . . That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. If he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime, he has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas."8
If a minor child living in the home is disfellowshipped, Christian parents are still responsible for his upbringing. The Watchtower of November 15, 1988, page 20, states: "Just as they will continue to provide him with food, clothing, and shelter, they need to instruct and discipline him in line with God’s Word. (Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17) Loving parents may thus arrange to have a home Bible study with him, even if he is disfellowshipped. Maybe he will derive the most corrective benefit from their studying with him alone. Or they may decide that he can continue to share in the family study arrangement."—See also The Watchtower of October 1, 2001, pages 16-17.9
Relatives Not in the Household: "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home," states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum.—See also The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 29-30.10
The Watchtower addresses another situation that can arise: "What if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) . . . What is done may depend on factors such as the parent’s true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household."—The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 28-9.11
As for a child, the same article continues: "Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring ‘leaven’ into the home?—Gal. 5:9."12
Benefits of Being Loyal to Jehovah: Cooperating with the Scriptural arrangement to disfellowship and shun unrepentant wrongdoers is beneficial. It preserves the cleanness of the congregation and distinguishes us as upholders of the Bible’s high moral standards. (1 Pet. 1:14-16) It protects us from corrupting influences. (Gal. 5:7-9) It also affords the wrongdoer an opportunity to benefit fully from the discipline received, which can help him to produce "peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."—Heb. 12:11.13
After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized.14
Loyally upholding the disfellowshipping arrangement outlined in the Scriptures demonstrates our love for Jehovah and provides an answer to the one that is taunting Him. (Prov. 27:11) In turn, we can be assured of Jehovah’s blessing. King David wrote regarding Jehovah: "As for his statutes, I shall not turn aside from them. With someone loyal you will act in loyalty."—2 Sam. 22:23, 26. -
renee_robburts
My grandfather was an inactive JW up untill my teens, and then he became active again. He would come over and try to get me and my father (who was disfellowshiped) to join the JW's. My father wrote a letter to the watchtower society and became in a sense blackballed. My grandfather had nothing to do with us after that untill his death. Why is that he could go and see his sister. What kind of religon seperates family members?
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homesteader
They can do what ever they want as the are responsible adults in society. What are the consequences for the daughter to have a relationship with her mom? I wouldn't feed into telling the daughter what JW's say she can do. Help her think for herself. What does she want to do? Nice of you to want to help.
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Elsewhere
August 2002 Kingdom Ministry:
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ezekiel3
They can do what ever they want as the are responsible adults in society. What are the consequences for the daughter to have a relationship with her mom? I wouldn't feed into telling the daughter what JW's say she can do. Help her think for herself.
Nice thought but go gently. JWs are programmed from day-one to think of other JWs as "brothers and sisters" and prepared to abandon their family over 'Biblical' principles.
The consequences for the daughter in this case are (from her viewpoint):
- Lose prospect of eternal life and God's blessing
- Lose association of JW friends and family (usually all of your associates since JWs are told not to make friends with non-JWs)
- Encourage mother to die at Armeggedon as well by failing to implement disciple program.
This is the glue that holds this cult together.