That's correct the JWs are judgemental in an unchristian way expelling and shunning people for criticising the org is not at all correct and like the pharisees they have a host of other rules that carry the expulsion penalty.
Need clarification on communication with a disfellowshipped person
by jostes 46 Replies latest social family
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CinemaBlend
9th Wonder, everything you've referenced only discusses disfellowshipping or expulsion.
I'm looking for something either on Dissassociation or saying that dissassociation should be treated the same as disfellowshipping. -
ezekiel3
Jostes says: Why doesn't anyone answer me on why jw are able to judge people the way they do? Isn't that un-"christian" like? Being judgemental will not help yourself get in better standing...
You need to understand that JWs are a cult and that disfellowshipping and disassociation are the prime tools that keep people from leaving or weakening their faith. There is nothing "Christain" about and the entire practice flys in the face of common sense and natural love. The following is the official JW explaination of the benefits of DFing:
Watchtower 1988 4/15 pp. 29-31 Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit
Discipline—Many Benefit
21 Some outsiders, upon hearing about disfellowshipping, are inclined to sympathize with a wrongdoer who can no longer converse with members of the Christian congregation. But is not such sympathy misplaced? Consider the potential benefit that the wrongdoer and others may receive.
22 For example, on page 26 we noted Lynette’s comment about her choice ‘to cut herself off completely from all association’ with her disfellowshipped sister Margaret. She and her Christian relatives ‘believed that Jehovah’s way is best.’ And it is!
23 Lynette’s sister later told her: ‘If you had viewed the disfellowshipping lightly, I know that I would not have taken steps toward reinstatement as soon as I did. Being totally cut off from loved ones and from close contact with the congregation created a strong desire to repent. I realized just how wrong my course was and how serious it was to turn my back on Jehovah.’
24 In another case, Laurie’s parents were disfellowshipped. Yet she says: ‘My association with them never stopped but increased. As time went on, I became more and more inactive. I got to the point of not even attending meetings.’ Then she read material in The Watchtower of September 1 and 15, 1981, that stressed the counsel of 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 and 2 John 9-11. “It was as if a light bulb were turned on in me,” she writes. ‘I knew I would have to make some changes. I now better understand the meaning of Matthew 10:34-36. My decision was not an easy one for my family to swallow, for my son, five, is the only boy, and they love him dearly.’ It is hoped that losing such association will touch the parents’ hearts, as it did Margaret’s. Still, the discipline involved helped Laurie: ‘I am back out in the field ministry. My marriage and family are stronger because of my change, and so am I.’
25 Or consider the feelings of one who was disfellowshipped and later reinstated. Sandi wrote: ‘I would like to thank you for the very helpful and instructive articles [mentioned above] on reproof and disfellowshipping. I am happy that Jehovah loves his people enough to see that his organization is kept clean. What may seem harsh to outsiders is both necessary and really a loving thing to do. I am grateful that our heavenly Father is a loving and forgiving God.’
26 So our God who requires that an unrepentant wrongdoer be expelled from the congregation also lovingly shows that a sinner can be reinstated in the congregation if he repents and turns around. (A disassociated person can similarly request to become part of the congregation again.) Thereafter he can be comforted by Christians who will confirm their love for him. (2 Corinthians 2:5-11; 7:8-13) Truly, it is just as Paul wrote: “No discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness.”
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CinemaBlend
>>>That's correct the JWs are judgemental in an unchristian way
I don't know that it's all that unchristian. Ever since the Romans stopped feeding them to the lions Christians haven't been very tolerant.
It may be Un-Jesus but it isn't unchristian. -
ezekiel3
CinemaBlend says: Do the same rules apply to dissassociation as disfellowshipping?
Because they are two differentthings. One is EXPULSION from the congregation, which seems to be what most of these articles reference, the other is leaving of your own accord and choosing.
The answer is YES. You cannot officially walk away from this organization with out suffering shunning. I can provide more references if you wish.
Organized to Do Jehovah's Will pp. 155-156
DISASSOCIATION
The term "disassociation" applies to the action taken by a person who, although a baptized member of the congregation, deliberately repudiates his Christian standing, rejecting the congregation by his actions or by stating that he no longer wants to be recognized as or known as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Because he is disassociated, his situation before Jehovah is far different from that of an inactive Christian, one who no longer shares in the field ministry. An inactive person may have failed to study God's Word regularly, or because of experiencing personal problems or persecution, he may have lost his zeal for serving Jehovah. The elders as well as other concerned members of the congregation will continue rendering appropriate spiritual assistance to an inactive brother. (Rom. 15:1; 1 Thess. 5:14; Heb. 12:12) However, the person who disassociates himself by repudiating the faith and deliberately abandoning Jehovah's worship is viewed in the same way as one who is disfellowshipped. A brief announcement is made to inform the congregation, stating: "[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses."
Concerning those who renounced their Christian faith in his day, the apostle John wrote: "They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us." (1 John 2:19) For example, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to the Bible and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Isa. 2:4; Rev. 19:17-21) If a person who is a Christian chooses to join those who are disapproved by God, a brief announcement is made to the congregation, stating: "[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." Such a person is treated in the same way as a disfellowshipped person. The presiding overseer should approve this announcement.
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jostes
What I am referencing to is disfellowshipped....being not acceptable to this group by the groups accord. The mother personally deserved this, drinking drugs, abusive and a slut. But you know I guess I was also was taught forgiveness...what ever happened to that. I personally was not raised by my mother she is a lost soul, but even the lost soul needs forgiveness and guidance even if the fall a couple of times like St. Peter who denied Christ 3 times. Forgiveness is needed, and obviously this CULT lacks that and teaches how to hate and hold grudges. ALSO how to judge those but wishes not to be judged at the same time. That is CRAP!
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CinemaBlend
Thanks Ezekial.
It's so silly... the organization looks better on people who are lazy (inactive) than those who are sincerely looking for the truth and trying to do what's right and end up choosing another path.
When you say it for what it is... it sounds rediculous and stupid. -
ezekiel3
Is that you Shatner? Nice to hear from the 'Captain'.Here is the article that changed everything regarding disassociation.
Interesting that this was published six months after Peter Gregerson disassociated himself. A few months after that, Ray Franz was seen taking lunch in a restaurant with Gregerson and it was this event that got Franz disfellowshipped himself. But at the time of the lunch, it was permissible (albeit questionable) to have dealings with a DAed person. The 9/15 Watchtower was instrumental in 'cleaning house' at the time.
Ray Franz says in Crisis of Conscience: "Some commented to me, 'They did everything but put your name and Peter Gregerson's in the magazine.'"
Watchtower 1981 9/15 p. 23 Disfellowshiping—How to View It
THOSE
WHO DISASSOCIATE THEMSELVES13
A Christian might grow spiritually weak, perhaps because of not studying God’s Word regularly, having personal problems or experiencing persecution. (1 Cor. 11:30; Rom. 14:1) Such a one might cease to attend Christian meetings. What is to be done? Recall that the apostles abandoned Jesus on the night of his arrest. Yet Christ had urged Peter, "When once you have returned, strengthen your brothers [who also abandoned Jesus]." (Luke 22:32) Hence, out of love Christian elders and others might visit and help the one who has grown weak and inactive. (1 Thess. 5:14; Rom. 15:1; Heb. 12:12, 13) It is another matter, though, when a person repudiates his being a Christian and disassociates himself.14
One who has been a true Christian might renounce the way of the truth, stating that he no longer considers himself to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses or wants to be known as one. When this rare event occurs, the person is renouncing his standing as a Christian, deliberately disassociating himself from the congregation. The apostle John wrote: "They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us."—1 John 2:19.15
Or, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of an organization whose objective is contrary to the Bible, and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Compare Revelation 19:17-21; Isaiah 2:4.) So if one who was a Christian chose to join those who are disapproved of God, it would be fitting for the congregation to acknowledge by a brief announcement that he had disassociated himself and is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.16
Persons who make themselves "not of our sort" by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing. -
jostes
Now let me guess since I don't have the views of a JW my sister shouldn't speak or associate with me either?
And explain that one to me, I have never spoke to her regarding her beliefs, that is why I came here so she didn't feel uncomfortable explaining it to me. She knows I am a Catholic, and proud of it. I just wanted some understanding, thanks for trying to accomodate me. But still so lost, just wish that everyone could get a long and be happy in their own way of seeking god, higher power, etc.
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ezekiel3
Now let me guess since I don't have the views of a JW my sister shouldn't speak or associate with me either?
Actually the bland truth is that JWs are not to associate on a friendly basis with anyone who is not a JW. Of course this except family who were never JWs to begin with.
However, if you continue to oppose your sister, her JW programming will cause her to limit her association with you too. Because you would be a "spiritual danger" to her.
This is just classic cult practice.
I empathize with you and there are many of us willing to address your questions. Just don't expect to hear the answers you want.