by frankiespeakin 36 Replies latest jw friends
They just can't be that naive and ignorant
I'm not so sure - for some of them anyway, where they are is all they have ever known. The World has changed and they can't (age, isolation and technology have all but defeated them)
doofdaddy - Yes, I think THEIR belief of ''right'' has usurped the original purpose, they are struggling with their own interpretations as they must know by now they haven't got God's inspiration (and if they DON'T know, well, they're pretty much alone).
They wilfully and knowingly manipulate their members eg don't go to university because the end is near. People that followed this advice in the 70's and 80's most likely will end up spending a lifetime cleaning houses and gardens and washing windows
Do they really believe that the end is near or do they say that to stop many capable jws from getting an education and waking up to all the non sense they teach?
I think that it was sumed up well by Ray Franz when he quoted one of their number complaining that as a "Governing Body" they weren't ruling over nothing. That was just before they siezed power from Knorr and Fred Franz. It's all about power.
Today, the Watchtower has a monthly printing of over 26 million and the Awake almost 24 million monthly. The Watchtower is the most widely distributed religious magazine in the world, with an average circulation of 26.4 million copies semimonthly in more than 150 languages.-------- Blondie
My thoughts (I can't get the quote box off!): Even when I was a dub, I disputed these large circulation figures. Say, there are 3 million publishers, and then non-publishers in the family, all getting magazines--maybe 5-6 million publishers. Each one gets maybe 3 (or more) of each issue, making 15-18 million magazines. Many, if not most!, of the JWs have large stacks of old mags that get thrown out or left in quantities at laundromats, etc. So, the public that gets/reads them is maybe 1/4 of the original number. Of course, you have to add in the JWs who are presumably reading them, which would make another 1/3? It seems to me the original number of 24 million is very misleading.
First of all is the grandiose delusion that they are appointed by God to carry out his will (Faithful and Discreet Slave). That one belief alone is the cornerstone out of which all their other psychotic and delusional behaviour stems. If they didn't believe they were appointed by God to carry out his will, would they impose that thought on the followers? Would they "execute" (by DFing for apostasy) anyone who no longer believes in their divine appointment? Would they engender and foster group paranoia about demons, about apostates, about the Internet? Would they engender and foster group delusions of grandeur that create an "us v. them" attitude between JWs and Worldly People™? Or delusions of persecution whenever the directives of the Governing Body are challenged by authorities?---------- ScullyPlus, I would add sociopaths, psychopaths, or antisocial personality (APD). I have read a bit on that (The Sociopath Next Door and web articles) lately. 1 out of 25 people in the US are sociopaths*. Many religious, political, and corporate leaders are sociopaths. It really doesn't seem to me to be a DISorder, but a particular type of personality. They view other people like toy robots to do what they tell them; they dominate. They never feel remorse for what happens because of that. Most are not violent, but all are dominating. They can be fairly bright. They are manipulative, PARASITIC. Sociopaths are called that, not because they're not social--they are, but because they go against a social order of fair treatment for all, etc.
Pat
* So, if the average person knows 300 people, 25 of the are sociopaths.
Psychoanalysing ray franz, the gb member that i know best, whlie his beliefs have changed a bit, i believe that his mental structure is still the same as when he was a wt corporate director. Even after his beliefs changed in the beginning, he did not want to leave the org. In fact, knowing all he knew, he begged to be allowed to continue in the org. It was only after he saw that that was a futile hope that he let go.
He believes things dispite disconfirmation, still. After being forced out of the wt, he let fall that one aspect of his belief system. But, he reshuffled the rest of his beliefs to give the impression of completeness. He is a good example of the resilience of the smart, strong mind to cling to a belief system. He is also a good demonstration of the lenghts that the king of the mind, the ego, will go, in order to maintain power. I wonder if he is really that much different than the other gb members.
S - amateur psychoanalist
Something I don't understand is the vast amount of property the WTBTS own. Why is it being amassed? And NOW I've mentioned that, I have started to think of Beth Sarim (?) - wasn't this built for the ''men of old''? I only wonder because IF they did return, surely they would have had their pick of luxurious property vacated by the recently dead. -------Midwich Cuckoo
I just viewed the DVD Witnesses of Jehovah (I give it top rating), available on Netflix sKally said. One thing about Beth Sarim is that Rutherford wintered there in the 3-wing mansion with a large swimming pool with others and lived in luxury while the rest of the dubs and country was in a huge depression (economic not mental, lol). The JWs were "whipped" into sacrificing to "colporteur," even getting rid of their few possessions to live on the road. Rutherford had something like two 8-cylinder Cadillacs. The film states that the WTS sold the mansion in San Diego in 1948 and became less flamboyant with their leaders.
Pat
Quotes asked:
I'm just wondering what is the current thinking on learned behaviour? Do psychologists make a distinction between learned paranoia vs. internally generated paranoia?
If I remember correctly, the only clinical differences between "learned" or extrinsic paranoia and intrinsic paranoia (such as you'd see in someone with schizophrenia, for example) is that "learned" paranoia in an otherwise "normal" person can be "unlearned", whereas the paranoia that happens when one has a true mental disorder like schizophrenia cannot be unlearned, even when the person receives information to counter their paranoid thoughts and delusions.
Let's start with some generally accepted definitions. These come from Mosby's Medical, Nursing & Allied Health Dictionary, 4th Edition. (added by edit: I removed the pronunciation keys due to some of the characters not being compatible with the text editor.)
paranoia [Gk, para + nous, mind], (in psychiatry) a disorder characterized by an elaborate overly suspicious system of thinking, with delusions of persecution and grandeur usually centered on one major theme, such as a financial matter, a job situation, an unfaithful spouse, or other problem.
paranoid [Gk, para + nous, mind, eidos, form] 1. pertaining to or resembling paranoia. 2. a person afflicted with a paranoid disorder. 3. informal. a person, or pertaining to a person, who is overly suspicious or exhibits persecutory trends or attitudes.
phobia [Gk, phobos, fear] an anxiety disorder characterized by an obsessive, irrational, and intense fear of a specific object, such as an animal or dirt; of an activity, such as meeting strangers or leaving the familiar setting of the home; or of a physical situation, such as heights and open or closed spaces. Typical manifestations of phobia include faintness, fatigue, palpitations, perspiration, nausea, tremor, and panic.
Does the GB/FDS teach their followers to have obsessive, irrational and intense fear of specific objects (ie, the devil/demons, "demonized" objects, blood transfusions), activities ("Beware the Voice of Strangers"), and physical situations (ie, being in contact with "demonized" objects, "apostates", exJWs, being in non-JW places of worship, or being hospitalized and having to face the possibility of a blood transfusion)?
shared paranoid disorder [AS, scearan, to shear], a psychopathologic condition characterized by identical manifestations of the same mental disorder, usually ideas, in two closely associated or related people. Also called folie à deux.
Do most JWs in good standing share the same irrational fears and ideas about the demons, apostates, blood transfusions? Who taught them these ideas? Did they acquire or learn these ideas all by themselves, or did they have help?
edited to add links
Scully that was Awesome! I believe it is a bait & switch tactic. preying on everyones hopes for a better life, wheather it is now or in the future (paradise). They confuse the hell out of the rank & file with their ever so changing doctrines and history. These poor people don't have any point of refence because it changes all the time. The Org. likes it that way because they can be manipulated and controlled like babies and during this dependency, they are sucked dry financially, mentally and emotionally. When and if the average jw leaves, the tangible thing that is left behind is Money! I agree with Garybuss on this.
IT is just delusion.
more importantly is their other problems.
Instead of physcobabble, they now just babble.
ILike I've said before, I think the GB is a front for more powerful, younger, crazier people. They run the org.
Here is a perfect example of how the GB/FDS links the Devil and the demons with apostasy, and fosters irrational fears among JWs about Independent Thinking™, apostasy, the Devil (with major props to Quotes):
"Let the sun not set with you in a provoked state, neither allow place for the Devil."-EPHESIANS 4:26, 27.
A VICIOUS wild beast is on the prowl. He has an insatiable desire to devour Christians. Peter warns: "Keep your senses, be watchful. Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone. But take your stand against him, solid in the faith . . . But, after you have suffered a little while, the God of all undeserved kindness . . . will make you firm, he will make you strong."-1 Peter 5:8-10.
2 We can be sure that the Devil and his agents, both demon and human, stand ready to exploit any gnawing doubt, any serious flaw of personality, any negligence on our part to keep spiritually strong in the faith. But Jehovah's Word assures us that the Devil will not devour us if we take a firm stand against him. (James 4:7) For instance, no one falls victim to apostasy because it just could not be avoided. No one is predestined to abandon the faith. Motives of the heart are involved. True, John said that some "went out from us, but they were not of our sort." (1 John 2:19) But this happened because they either chose apostasy or came into Jehovah's organization with a bad motive at the start. Judas Iscariot had a good heart when called as one of Jesus' 12 apostles, but the Devil worked on Judas' weakness of greed. Even before the night of Jesus' betrayal, "the Devil [had] already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray him."-John 13:2.
3 A person goes bad because he lets his own selfish reasoning, his own ambitions and desires, his chosen associates and surroundings, mold his thinking and determine the direction of his will. Paul spoke of some who were 'once enlightened, had tasted the heavenly free gift, but had fallen away.' (Hebrews 6:4-6) If we are not continually on guard, the Devil can by his sly propaganda make our hearts receptive to apostate thinking. But how does the Devil, in effect, set a person up as a likely casualty, a victim of apostasy?
4 Common attitudes that Satan looks for are bitterness, resentment, and faultfinding. Such feelings can grow so strong that there is very little room left for love and appreciation. Perhaps some unresolved problem festers, causing a person to feel angry and justified in staying away from vital Christian meetings. By remaining provoked for an extended period of time, he 'allows place for the Devil.' (Ephesians 4:27) The disturbed individual sees only his brother's human weaknesses, rather than forgiving him "seventy-seven times," and he fails to use the trying circumstances as opportunities to be perfecting Christian qualities. (Matthew 18:22) While in this state of mind, if someone comes along and suggests that Jehovah's organization is oppressive or restrictive, or even wrong in certain vital teachings, the embittered Christian's heart may be receptive to such unfounded claims. How necessary it is, then, to avoid letting bitterness and resentment build up! Do not let the sun set on your anger. Instead, let love have its full expression in your life.
5 What other conditions of heart and mind is the Devil looking for? Well, there are pride, a feeling of self-importance, resentment at not getting the prominence one feels one should have. These are all pitfalls used by the Devil. (Romans 12:3) If you are counseled or even reproved for some wrong practice or attitude, this, too, may prove to be an ideal time for the Devil to prompt you to ask yourself if you are in the right organization. So keep humble. Be content to conduct yourself as "a lesser one." Do not let pride or a feeling of self-importance ever cause you to totter from standing solidly in the faith.-Luke 9:48; 1 Peter 5:9.
6 Impatience is another thing looked for by the Devil. We may sometimes feel that changes should be made; we want quick action, immediate answers. 'This problem must be cleared up now, or I quit. I've got to have the answer to this question right now, or I'm not going any further. Armageddon and the new system have been "right around the corner" for years now. I'm tired of waiting.' Be assured that the Devil is ready to sow seeds of doubt and revolt in such fields of impatience. Endurance and faith are needed.-Hebrews 10:36, 39.
7 James said: "Let endurance have its work complete, that you may be complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything. So, if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah; he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways." (James 1:4-8) Do not let the Devil make you a candidate for apostasy because you have become demandingly impatient, doubtful about the promises of God! Be patient, be thankful. Wait upon Jehovah.-Psalm 42:5.
8 What else does the Devil use in trying to turn us away? Has he not always tried to stir up rebellion, to cause Jehovah's servants to become critical of those taking the lead? 'The elders just do not understand. They are too critical, too demanding,' some may say. A person may go further and claim that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses or other responsible brothers interfere with freedom of conscience and the individual's "right" to interpret the Scriptures. But remember Joseph's humble words: "Do not interpretations belong to God?" (Genesis 40:8) And did not Jesus foretell that in these final days an organization of anointed ones, "the faithful and discreet slave," would be entrusted with providing spiritual food at the proper time? (Matthew 24:45-47) Beware of those who try to put forward their own contrary opinions. Also beware of those who want to throw off all restraints or who promise freedom, claiming that Jehovah's Witnesses are slaves! Peter said of false teachers: "While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are existing as slaves of corruption. For whoever is overcome by another is enslaved by this one."-2 Peter 2:1, 19.
9 What is often the motive of those who criticize the Society or those taking the lead? Is it not often that some application of Scripture affects them personally? Rather than conform to sound doctrine and direction, they want the organization to change. Let us illustrate this with a few examples:
10 A brother insists on some extreme clothing or grooming style. The elders feel that he is not a good example and do not extend to him certain privileges, such as appearing on the platform to give instruction. He becomes resentful, claiming that others are trying to take away his Christian freedom. But what is behind such reasoning? Is it not usually pride, an independent attitude, or a rather childish desire to have one's own way? While this seemingly is a small thing, a person reasoning in that way could "allow place for the Devil." But love and humility will cause us to dress and groom ourselves in a modest, acceptable way. We should want to do all things for the advancement of the good news and not to be pleasing ourselves.-Romans 15:1, 2; 1 Corinthians 10:23, 24.
11 Let us take another example. Occasionally you may hear someone question whether the Scriptural prohibition against eating blood really applies to transfusions. But what is behind that reasoning? Is it fear-fear of possibly losing one's present life or the life of a loved one? Is hope in the resurrection fading? Faithful Christians do not compromise on God's law or look for ways to water it down. Abstaining from blood to nourish the body is just as necessary as abstaining from fornication and idolatry, all condemned in the same spirit-directed decree of the apostles and older men at Jerusalem.-Acts 15:19, 20, 28, 29.
12 Some who have a critical attitude claim that Jehovah's organization is too strict about cutting off social contacts with disfellowshipped persons. (2 John 10, 11) But why do such critics feel that way? Do they have a close family tie or mistaken loyalty to a friend that they are putting ahead of loyalty to Jehovah and his standards and requirements? Consider, too, that continuing to accord social fellowship to an expelled person, even one as close as a relative, may lead the erring one to conclude that his course is not so serious, and this to his further harm. However, withholding such association may create in him a craving for what he has lost and a desire to regain it. Jehovah's way is always best, and it is for our own protection.-Proverbs 3:5.
13 Still another person may incorrectly claim that the Scriptures do not support public preaching from house to house. But is this because he already dislikes this important work and is looking for an excuse to abstain? Love of God and neighbor should motivate us to see the urgency of this lifesaving work. Again, endurance is needed. The apostle Paul spoke of his own endurance in 'thoroughly bearing witness to Jews and Greeks' as he taught publicly and from house to house. (Acts 20:18-21) Rather than complain, should we not loyally follow his fine example? Look at the thousands who have been gathered into the "one flock" because of Jehovah's blessing upon the house-to-house work! (John 10:16) And do not forget the fine benefits we receive in training and discipline, in strengthening our faith, by going from door to door so as to reach people with the good news.-Compare Acts 5:42; 1 Timothy 4:16.
14 Finally, we might consider what the Society has published in the past on chronology. Some opposers claim that Jehovah's Witnesses are false prophets. These opponents say that dates have been set, but nothing has happened. Again we ask, What is the motive of these critics? Are they encouraging wakefulness on the part of God's people, or are they, rather, trying to justify themselves for falling back into sleepy inactivity? (1 Thessalonians 5:4-9) More importantly, what will you do if you hear such criticism? If a person is questioning whether we are living in "the last days" of this system, or perhaps is entertaining ideas that God is so merciful that he surely will not cause the death of so many millions of people during the "great tribulation," then this individual already has prepared his heart to listen to such criticisms.-2 Timothy 3:1; Matthew 24:21.
15 Yes, Jehovah's people have had to revise expectations from time to time. Because of our eagerness, we have hoped for the new system earlier than Jehovah's timetable has called for it. But we display our faith in God's Word and its sure promises by declaring its message to others. Moreover, the need to revise our understanding somewhat does not make us false prophets or change the fact that we are living in "the last days," soon to experience the "great tribulation" that will pave the way for the earthly Paradise. How foolish to take the view that expectations needing some adjustment should call into question the whole body of truth! The evidence is clear that Jehovah has used and is continuing to use his one organization, with "the faithful and discreet slave" taking the lead. Hence, we feel like Peter, who said: "Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life."-John 6:68.
16 Only in the spiritual paradise, among Jehovah's Witnesses, can we find the self-sacrificing love Jesus said would identify his true disciples. (John 13:34, 35) By their bad fruits, false prophets are exposed for what they really are. But Jesus indicated that the good trees would be identified by their fine fruits. (Matthew 7:15-20) And what fine fruitage we have in the spiritual paradise! Amazing increases are taking place in practically every country. Over 3,000,000 happy subjects of God's Kingdom around the globe are living proof that Jehovah has a people on the earth.
17 Because they are taught by God, Jehovah's Witnesses really produce the fruits of Christianity in their lives. (Isaiah 54:13) Only Jehovah's people have completely broken free from Babylonish superstitions. Only they have an organization that completely abides by what God's Word has to say on sexual immorality, abortions, drunkenness, stealing, idolatry, racial prejudice, and other worldly pursuits and practices. And they alone are the ones obeying the command to preach the good news of Jehovah's Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14) God's own Word unquestionably points to Jehovah's Witnesses as the one organized people that have his blessing!
18 Yes, to all who are faithfully and loyally enduring in the Christian way, we are sure that Jehovah's truth is still beautiful, satisfying-even more so than when they first heard it. Therefore, resolve in your heart that you will never even touch the poison that apostates want you to sip. Heed the wise but firm commands of Jehovah to avoid completely those who would deceive you, mislead you, turn you aside into the ways of death. If we love Jehovah with our whole heart, soul, and mind, while loving our neighbor as we love ourselves, we will leave no room for penetration by apostate thinking. (Matthew 22:37-39) We will not "allow place for the Devil" and will have no desire to look elsewhere. We will not 'be quickly shaken from our reason' by some counterfeit teaching.-2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2.
19 Let us always appreciate our privilege of being in Jehovah's spiritual paradise, where we are enjoying so many rich blessings. We know who are holding faithfully to the sayings of everlasting life. So maintain close association with them, knowing that they are our genuine, loyal brothers and sisters in the faith. May we continue to have the same joy and satisfaction that we had when we first learned the truth, with the assurance of the grand prize of everlasting life in Jehovah's new system of things. As Paul so aptly said: "Let no man deprive you of the prize"!-Colossians 2:18.
