Scriptural Validity of Earthly Paradise?

by stevieb1 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • stevieb1
    stevieb1

    What do you think? Is the W.T. Society correct in it's interpretation of such Scriptures as Psalm 72:16; Isaiah 11:8,9; 35:1,6,7; 55:13; 65:21-23 and most prominently Revelation 21:3,4 by intimating that these things will be fulfilled ON EARTH at some point after Armageddon, or have these verses been taken out of context and misapplied? It would be important to be sure on this matter as this is a primary Witness doctrine. If they are wrong on this matter then what about Jehovah's original purpose for the Earth (Psalm 37:11; Isaiah 45:18)?
    I believe Ray Franz had something to say on this matter in his Christian Freedom book.

    All serious replies would be appreciated.

  • MikeNightHaShev
    MikeNightHaShev

    It's a Hebrew belief that the kingdom was a perfected one on earth and the word which became known as Heaven is from the term
    Kingdom to come & world to come.
    The concept of the Hebrew Teachings on Resurrection shows that the only way to be eternal is through RETURNING to this one grace of Life.
    By teaching another place in death they then worship the curse and contradict the teachings of Resurrection.
    More Info on the truth about afterlife:
    http://archmalakh.koolhost.com/afterlife.html

    More verses about kingdom on earth:
    using your NT :
    Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city
    of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable
    company of ‘angels’ (messengers/prophets).

    Thomas Verse 112 His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?" Jesus said, "It will not come be looking for it. Nor will it do"to say, 'Behold over here!' or 'Behold, over there!'. Rather, the kingdom of the Father is spread out on the earth, but people do not see it."

    similar: (Luke 17:20-21)
    The kingdom of God
    does not come with your careful observation,
    nor will people say,
    “Here it is,” or “There it is,”
    because the kingdom of God is within you.

    In the Talmud, Michael’s relationship to the other angels is compared with that on earth of the high priest to Israel;
    The throne of G-d is compared to the throne and temple of G-d in Jerusalem...because they are but in a future time the same.

    scrolls:
    4Q418 Frag. 81 ***all those who inherit the earth shall walk, forth in heaven [ . . . ] ***

    Jeremiah 16 or 17? Where the feet will worship and lick the dust of the earth when they know the Lord.

    Deuteronomy\Devarim: 30:19
    I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day,That I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse;Therefore choose life, that you may live, you and your children.

    "But your dead will live; their bodies will rise. You who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy...the earth will give birth to her dead."

    One Generation passeth away, and another generation
    cometh: but the EARTH abideth FOREVER.
    (Ecclesiastes 1:4)

    The Righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked
    shall not inhabit the earth. (Proverbs 10:30)

    For such as be blessed of Him shall inherit the Earth;
    and they that be cursed of Him shall be cut off.
    (Psalm 37:22)

    Wait on the Lord, and keep His way and he shall
    exalt thee to inherit the Land, when the wicked are
    cut off, thou shalt see it. (Psalm 37:34)

    Psalms 37:29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
    And they will reside forever upon it.****

    For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain
    in it. 22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the
    transgressors shall be rooted out of it."

    "So will it be on the earth and among all the nations...gleanings are left (i.e., a few people will remain)...They raise their voices, they shout for joy...singing: 'Glory to the Righteous One'..." (Isaiah 24:13-16).
    "In that day the Lord will punish the powers in the heavens above and the kings on the earth below...the Lord Almighty will reign on Mount Zion in Jerusalem..." (Isaiah 24:21-23). "He will swallow up death forever...." (Isaiah 25:8).

  • MDS
    MDS

    Hi StevieB:

    Jehovah's Witnesses are correct in their belief that the earth will be converted into a literal "paradise."

    But where they are wrong is,

    They do not see the literal "Kingdom Government of God," as "coming" literally upon this earth, and finding its "seat" of Government upon this earth exclusively, as those of Judaism believe.

    In this instance, those of Judaism are correct.

    For example, JWs do not believe Daniel 2:44 shows a literal Divinely Ordained Human Government to be situated upon literal earth to provide guidance and leadership.

    Thus Jesus' teaching, "...thy kingdom come, upon earth as it is in heaven," is taken or interpreted as being symbolic in meaning, and not literal. -- Matt. 6:10

    This is an incorrect viewpoint.

    Those of Judaism have the correct viewpoint on this matter.

    Hope this helps.

    MDS

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest StevieB... may you have peace!

    My Father's kingdom, which my Lord has inherited will INDEED 'come' to be upon the earth. The prophesy "and the meek will inherit the EARTH and reside forever upon it" and that "righteousness will dwell in the EARTH", is true. The 'command' given to Adam and Eve to "fill the EARTH... and subdue it"... which command they failed to fulfill, WILL be realized. The 'revelation' that "they are to rule as kings UPON THE EARTH" (erroneously changed to 'over' the earth to support false WT propaganda)... will not fail. How do we KNOW?

    They are ALL fulfilled in the visions seen by John, where:

    "I saw also the holy city, NEW Jerusalem...
    coming down OUT of heaven from God..."

    and...

    "And the nations will walk by its light
    and the kings of the EARTH will bring
    their glory... INTO it... they will
    bring the glory and honor of the nations
    ... INTO it... but anyone not sacred...
    will in NO way... ENTER INTO IT."

    Revelation 21:2, 24, 26

    This is in fulfillment of Matthew 8:11, wherein my Lord is recorded to have said:

    "... many... from eastern parts and western parts...
    (the 'nations') will come... [I]and recline WITH Abraham
    and Isaac and Jacob... IN the kingdom of the heavens."

    Matthew 8:11

    Thus, although a few go to be 'with' God for their 'marriage' to the Lamb, they return when that city 'comes down out of heaven'... and it is at THAT time that the 'tent' (or dwelling of God)... is WITH MANKIND... ALL of mankind rather than only a few... instead of mankind... being with Him.

    I hope this helps, and I bid you peace!

    Your servant, and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • MikeNightHaShev
    MikeNightHaShev

    Revelations is not the OT so if it contradicts then you'd be selling out the many verses in the OT saying one thing while for the one selective verse in the NT which would not work because you'd discredit your icon and premise for your faith in doing so.

    Where's Heaven? The future earth
    Thus the new Jerusalem and new Temple is coming from a message down from the future to the past that's why the measurments and all are in the bible (that which came from heaven).

    If you disagree then let me remind you John of Patmos Revelation prophecy did not come to pass, there was no kingdom in their day and age and neither did the icon return quickly. By using a prophet who's writing discredits your own prophet Jesus as being a viable prophet means your caught in a web either way you look at it.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    John of Patmos Revelation prophecy did not come to pass, there was no kingdom in their day and age and neither did the icon come quickly

    Much of the 'revelation' was to come at a much further off time.

    Peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • MikeNightHaShev
    MikeNightHaShev

    The kingdom was to appear to them before they died.
    Unfortunately when you die it's to late to tell your prophet he failed you.
    In Thomas he lived to tell about his honest opinion of Jesus, Josephus in ANT. 18.3.3 told it the same way and even Luke mentioned his dissapointment that Jesus failed to deliver his people even though they had hoped he was the one. However this portion of Luke 24:19-20 -- based on the Greek text was removed by the church and until recently discovered was missing from text.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    The kingdom was to appear to them before they died.

    May I ask... in what 'manner', dear Mike? Thank you in advance for your reply... and I bid you peace.

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • MikeNightHaShev
    MikeNightHaShev

    They never did describe what they thought the Kingdom would be because the church would be admiting it did not have what came from heaven thus they always were known to call things a MYSTERY to escape from describing or answering things.

    The Hebrew traditions show the Messiah age as a prelude to the world to come (on earth) where nature eventually is changed.
    In the Messiah age illnesses will be eradicated (as we now see the possibilities)the repair of the world will take place in many aspects, this is not by the hand of one man but was always written as the period of Moshiach not that Moshiach does it hands on especially since in Hebrew traditions Moshiach is NOT DIVINE.
    In the scrolls, if you ever research the Dead Sea scrolls, it tells you about the Kingdom and who it is under:
    4Q471
    XVII He’s redeemed by the princely Angel of the Kingdom of Michael.

    Clues everyone missed including JW's and Adventists:

    His name will be in the name of the Temple/"MIKdaSH"-
    (Melakim {I Kings8:43).

    Ironically Dash means 'REFERS TO' so the term Mikdash is a hint that the Building refers to MIKE.
    Sometimes the Temple is called 'MikDosh'
    Dosh means Thresher and Michael is the Thresher of Daniel and the other verses.
    The clues of the thresher is the clue to Isaiah 25:7 remover of the veil since threshing is removing the thin film veil from the grain.

    More clues requiring knowledge of hebrew:
    the term for the bible
    Mikra = the Hebrew word for the Bible.
    (Ra=Hebrew meaning Father in Heaven)
    Thus the bible name reveals MIKE as the Father in heaven who leaves us the word which is why Daniel 10:20 says Michael best knows the scripture of truth.

    MIKEDEM=FROM EVERLASTING TO EVERLASTING

    Mikveh= a form of purification, atonement (cleansing) for contact with the death, or with murder.

    Miketz portion of the Torah which talks about the unpopular truth becoming realized in the end but also requires knowledge of the word:
    Ketz; lit., `end': a particularly auspicious time for * Mashiach to bring the exile to an end
    When they say Moshiach’s names are hidden in the names of the Torah portion this is a perfect example where it is Michael who lifts the veil and reveals the unpopular truth in it’s time thus bringing the end of exile.

    There's much more all requiring knowledge of Hebrew and the Torah and way we read the stories.

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Eccl 10:12-14
    12 Words from a wise man's mouth are gracious,
    but a fool is consumed by his own lips.
    13 At the beginning his words are folly;
    at the end they are wicked madness-
    14 and the fool multiplies words.

    You and AGuest are a couple of "word multipliers." The Talmud is Jewish word multiplication AWAY from the truth of God. The true words of God were WRITTEN DOWN BY MOSES, as well as others deemed worthy in the OT writings, so screwball man made oral traditions wouldn't corrupt.

    The FULL Torah is God's ONLY pre-Christian writings. By FULL Torah I mean The Law (Torah, first five),The Prophets (The Nevi'im) The Writings (Kethuvim). That is the complete OT "Tanakh." That is all the pre-Christian teachings anyone needs.

    The Talmud is a man made tradition being taught as from God.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit