a question of conscience (page 3)

defd

I agree with Peggy, here, actually. Hm, I think some of the people here (myself included, actually), should be a bit more friendly to the JW-visitors (except from Scholar and DefD, they suck!). After all, coming to websites like this is a first step out ;of insanity. Hey I am a celebrity

Hellrider

Hey I am a celebrity

Don`t flatter yourself. You suck, simply because you show up, spew some JW-propaganda, and then refuse to respond to logical arguments. You did that in the thread where we discussed Gods violent nature in the OT (you simply refused to answer my arguments and questions), and you have done it elsewhere too. How about responding to Big Tex` post on page 7 in this thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/95454/7.ashx

...or are you not able? You can`t? Intellectual impotence?

defd

I wont argue with people who ask leading ? just for the sake of arguing. I am not stupid.

Ticker

I just wanted to say I think you are confusing the meaning between a lurker and a troll. A lurker is someone who watches but may not post ever or for along time before they feel comfortable. They would rather passivelly sit back and read others posts. I was a lurker on these boards for about 5 years before I had the courage to make a post, due to indoctrinated fear.

A troll is someone who comes to cause trouble on a board or chat room and seeks attention from others by causing a disturbance. They generally are very seldom passive and rather they like to draw much attention.

As for why do some come here and read all the available information and yet continue to deny the inevidible. That being that the JW religion is just another extreme high control cult. Who can answer, since one cannot read minds. I would find it very difficult myself to defend the Org. against these very blatant facts and one would have to be intellectually and morally dishonest with themselves to not accept the fact that the JW's are clearly false and misleading in many of their doctrines. Pherhaps they feel somehow out of necessity to sweep it under the rug in order to maintain their fragile sealed environment. Maybe they do not want to accept the reality, that no one has the answers but rather we are all on the same course and all will one day face death.

Ticker

Hellrider

I wont argue with people who ask leading ? just for the sake of arguing. I am not stupid.

Sir, did you just call me a Watchtower-magazine?

garybuss

The Jehovah's Witnesses side of the publishing corporation isn't a religion, it's a culture, a society. It's easy to leave a religion. It's difficult to leave a culture. The aggregate of the people create the society and the product of society is the culture. The culture in turn shapes and defines the people. The elements at work are social, not religious.
Most people like me who leave the Witness group, leave for social reasons. Then I justify my social reasons for leaving by examining the ethics and history and rationality of the group after I leave.

Pistoff

Gary Buss said:

"The Jehovah's Witnesses side of the publishing corporation isn't a religion, it's a culture, a society. It's easy to leave a religion. It's difficult to leave a culture. The aggregate of the people create the society and the product of society is the culture. The culture in turn shapes and defines the people. The elements at work are social, not religious.

Most people like me who leave the Witness group, leave for social reasons. Then I justify my social reasons for leaving by examining the ethics and history and rationality of the group after I leave."

Very interesting; I think I can tap into what you are saying. I am not sure how it worked for me; I became emotionally distant from my congregation when I was lied to repeatedly by the elder body, and punished for expressing an opinion about a railroad job done on some elders.
I tried to rebuild my faith at least three times, tear down and start over.
The first few times, with publications. But the more I read those, the less sense they made. I am not new either; I was dunked in the early 70's.
Then I tried just reading the Bible. That was the real eye opener. What I read did not agree with what I was taught, and I tried to reconcile the two, believe me.

I came here in 2002 in the wake of the sex abuse scandal. That pushed me out intellectually and physically; I could no longer even pretend it was the "truth". Now I see it for what it is; a publishing company who has carefully controlled it's image with the agressive use of mind control and lawyers.

I love your posts, Gary.

And Peggy, keep coming back. I too love to hear all sides.

P

peggy

P--------Thank you for your comments! Now that my friends, is COMPASSION! Also, based on your own experience, you have true understanding! NO NEED FOR ARROGANCE! I too was baptized in the 70's, I have been a pioneer, and a long time elders wife. I am now inactive, depressed, alone and trying to find my way. I LURK here for information. This is a welcoming board by the majority. Others, well they have their way of "exposing" themselves!

Trevor........the thread is still alive, despite your best efforts at controll!

Peg

garybuss

Pistoff, you wrote: "I love your posts, Gary."I love your posts too. Thanks!
For some of us, leaving a group like the Jehovah's Witnesses is like returning home. For others, maybe like me, since I was raised inside the group culture, leaving is sorta like taking a trip, seeing a new location I like and settling there. I'm very comfortable where I am. I NEVER get anxious when I'm at a meeting that opens with the pledge of allegiance to the flag, or if everybody stands for the national anthem, I just join them. Those two things used to give me a panic attack, for real.
I'm very comfortable in a church and I love the architecture and art work. Some of those buildings are pieces of art themselves. I like the pastors and the priests. I forget their occupation.
Not to ignore the thread topic of a question of conscience, the reason a lurker can read disconfirming evidence and stay a Witness is no mystery. A Witness doesn't stay a Witness because of lack of error and conflict in the group, they stay Witnesses in spite of seeing a lot of disconfirming evidence. They are conditioned to ignore it. What they can't ignore, they rationalize. What they can't rationalize, they excuse. I think for the most part I've found it's not effective to expose a Witness to disconfirming information. I've found it's better to be non confrontational and simply supply only the help that's asked for, if any. If the Witness in your life is nice, keep rapport. If they are mean, lock the door.

Sheri

"A Witness doesn't stay a Witness because of lack of error and conflict in the group, they stay Witnessess in spite of seeing a lot of disconfirming evidence. They are conditioned to ignore it. What they can't ignore they rationalize. What they can't rationalize, they excuse."

Boy did you hit the nail on the head. Since I reached that point when I could not ignore that everyone in my family and my worldly friends that I loved would die, if Armageddon came today. According to the Watchtower Magazines and books that I researched to confirm that the speaker could say such a horrible and arrogant thing from the stage. I know I must have read some of these articles, yet amazingly I had just rationalized it away that Jehovah would read the hearts of all at that time. Yet it was so clearly stating the opposite in the articles. I guess then I just ignored it.

So I am on a journey of discovery and this site has been helpful in gathering information as I began to question other information (607BCE, 1914, etc), reading the variety of thoughts and just accepting everyone has the right to where they are right now. Coming out of the "conditioned" state of mind for over 25 years this is a real trip and I am ready for the journey!

Peace & Love,

Sheri

a question of conscience

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