Stem Cell Research article

by DevonMcBride 112 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  Human life begins at conception, when the lifeform has 48 chromosomes.

  actually, humans only have 46 chromosomes. 23 from each parent. apes, YOUR closest living relative, have 48.

  but the cells in each parent all have 46 chromosomes. the only cells that do not are the sexual reproduction cells, which only carry 23 chromosomes.

  incidentally, the "killing" of any human cell, including hair cells for example, is the "killing" of the same amount of chromosomes as contained in the cells that make up the fertilized cell in sexual computation.

  so if life is 46 chromosomes, then i would advise you not to cut your hair anymore, or shed any skin cells. it's "murder".

  this is not a human, and has no more potential than any other set of chromosomes:
• 

  the_classicist

  actually, humans only have 46 chromosomes. 23 from each parent. apes, YOUR closest living relative, have 48.
  

  but the cells in each parent all have 46 chromosomes. the only cells that do not are the sexual reproduction cells, which only carry 23 chromosomes.

  incidentally, the "killing" of any human cell, including hair cells for example, is the "killing" of the same amount of chromosomes as contained in the cells that make up the fertilized cell in sexual computation.

  so if life is 46 chromosomes, then i would advise you not to cut your hair anymore, or shed any skin cells. it's "murder".

  
  

  Woops. As Doctor Who would say to me, "Stupid Ape."

  Any human cell cannot grow into a complete human being, as I've said before. It's a false analogy.
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  
  classicist,

  I have provided a biological basis and if you look through the thread you'll see I've never argued from a religious stand point

  your religious assertions are implicit.

  i saw you talk a bit about zygotes, but you did not expound. i saw you talk a bit about 48 chromosome ape DNA, but not about any human DNA.

  Yes, a simple clump of cells has no potential to become a human being, but an embryo does. That is the difference. It is certainly not self-sustaining as of yet, but neither are new born children, are they?

  since you do not see the whole process as a computer executing it's code, then i ask, where do you draw the line? when does a clump of cells becomne an embryo? when it starts to morpologically look like a baby? is that all you go on? so what the difference between a clump of cells that looks a little like a baby, and a clump of cells that looks a little little like a baby? how do you know?

  Human life begins at conception: when the cell takes upon the 48 chormosomes of human beings.

  i know i know, we ARE apes. you're right. but we still only have 46, sorry. but i would like a source for your assertion that life starts at conception.

  I'll say no, as the zygote had no choice in the matter.

  and i'll say no too. the 46 chromosomes that you kill when you cut your hair, have no say in the matter either.

  a zygote has no choice in the matter?? come on, really now.

  Scientists tend to exaggerate their claims in order to get more funding, especially in medical research.

  oh i see. science phobia. i would like to see a source for this assertion too, thanks.

  TS
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  It's a false analogy.

  
  

  
  you repeating this over and over again is not going to help any.

  it's not a false analogy, as there is no magic in the conception process, unless you say there is.

  23 chromosomes come from one parent, 23 from the other. 23 x 2 = 46. that's all!

  the chromosome in a cell has all the data required for a clone. so how is it a false analogy? just because not all 46 come from one parent?that's ridiculous. it still equals the same amount, the code and chromosomal addressing is the same. it computes into a human! so?!
• 

  the_classicist

  you repeating this over and over again is not going to help any.

  it's not a false analogy, as there is no magic in the conception process, unless you say there is.

  23 chromosomes come from one parent, 32 from the other. 23 x 2 = 46. that's all!

  the chromosome in a cell has all the data required for a clone. so how is it a false analogy? just because not all 46 come from one parent?that's ridiculous. it still equals the same amount, the code and chromosomal addressing is the same. it computes into a human! so?!

  False analogy: " In an analogy, two objects (or events), A and B are shown to be similar. Then it is argued that since A has property P, so also B must have property P. An analogy fails when the two objects, A and B, are different in a way which affects whether they both have property P." Property P is the ability to become a human being: an embryo is a human entity reliant on another human being. A toenail cell is a part of your own entity and will not grow into another person, ever, unless you wish to use the reductio ad absurdum fallacy.
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  
  not quite.

  you obviously are not reading my posts.

  you say there is something different between a cell that has 23 female chromosomes and 23 males chromosomes, and a toenail cell that just has 46 male chromosomes.

  both cells have 46 chromosomes. so no, it's not what you call it. it's not a fallacy. it's not a red herring. it's not a false analogy. we are talking about the same thing. a cell with 46 chromnosomes. thank you very much.

  plus. stem cells are not even cells. they just have the ability to turn into whatever type of cells.

  you still have not defined your line between a clump of cells and an embryo. but alas, i will have to wait until tomorrow. sweet bed calls.

  good night sweet prince,

  TS
• 

  the_classicist

  your religious assertions are implicit.

  i saw you talk a bit about zygotes, but you did not expound. i saw you talk a bit about 48 chromosome ape DNA, but not about any human DNA.

  I also see how you use one mistake to attack another position, which isn't very logical or rational.

  since you do not see the whole process as a computer executing it's code, then i ask, where do you draw the line? when does a clump of cells becomne an embryo? when it starts to morpologically look like a baby? is that all you go on? so what the difference between a clump of cells that looks a little like a baby, and a clump of cells that looks a little little like a baby? how do you know?

  At the moment of conception it has the ability to become a fully-formed human being, which is where you draw the line.

  oh i see. science phobia. i would like to see a source for this assertion too, thanks.

  And people call me naive. No, I can't bring any specific cases right now, but I've heard it from my old Biology professor (who's a microbiologist).
• 

  the_classicist

  both cells have 46 chromosomes. so no, it's not what you call it. it's not a fallacy. it's not a red herring. it's not a false analogy. we are talking about the same thing. a cell with 46 chromnosomes. thank you very much.

  Strawman. I indicated an embryo with 46 chromosome that can be come a fully-formed human.
• 

  the_classicist

  Wait, I can think of specific cases of exaggerations: global warming. Truth is, they don't know what's going to happen, but many scientists represent their hypotheses as fact in public in order to gain popularity and power behind their cause.
• 

  Mary

  Classicist said: but you can't selfishly infringe on another's right to life in order to sustain your own

  Oh bullshit. It's called 'Survival' and humans have been doing whatever they need to do to survive for thousands of years. I agree with EvilForce: if it's me or a clump of cells that hasn't formed in to anything yet, and it'll save my life---I win.

  Classicist, if you don't think that Stem Cell Research is good, then no one's forcing you to use it; it's your choice. But don't condemn everyone else for not seeing it your way. When all the bleeding hearts such as yourself have taken care of all the emotionally, mentally and physically shattered children of this world who were born to people who should have never had kids, then you can whine about saving cells........or bacteria.