BERRY LAWSUIT EVALUATED

by MadApostate 133 Replies latest jw friends

MadApostate

"Careful WTS Legal may be monitoring us. We don't want to give anything away."
Jimminy Crickets!!! Lawsuits/court cases aren't like they are portrayed on Matlock or Murder She Wrote, with unknown facts floating around just waiting for some "supersleuth" to turn them up.
Paul Berry was tried and convicted in a fullblown criminal trial back in October. Do you actually think there is a single minute detail that wasn't discovered by the Prosecution, Defense, or all the News Reporters that investigated those people's lives with a magnifying glass?
As for some comments in SL's original thread about how appropriate it was that all the DB insiders kept the lawsuit "secret" until it was officially filed- COME ON!!! Does anyone actually think that the WTS hasn't anticipated this civil lawsuit from even before the criminal trial was completed?
As for discussing the current civil lawsuit, it is as equally ignorant to think that the WTS needs tips from "barber shop lawyers" to help them defend this case. They already have every available "fact" from the criminal proceedings. This lawsuit basicly only deals with civil lawsuit "legalities", and the WTS doesn't need help with those, I'm sure.
Utopian Reformist

I believe it's important to realize several key factors about all of these witness lawsuits:
1. If a family has been thru all of the consequences associated with litigation, rest assured they have lost all ties to the JW community and have probably incurred some major financial debt/losses.
2. Economically speaking, unless a family can AFFORD to snub a "reasonable settlement offer", it is going to be difficult to prevent the WTBS from buying their way out of these cases, like the Catholic Church has been doing for years.
This means that it may take even longer to completely expose the WTBS. Conditions and circumstances will dictate the level and amount of sacrifice, poverty, publicity, humiliation, loss, suffering, abandonment, loss of society, loss of consortium, loss of companionship and emotional damages a family can bear.
Since the majority of JW's are NOT well educated beyond publications, the overall JW demographic is blue collar, high school degree, entry level office position or manual/menial labor and very little in savings and real property. This makes one's case ripe for purchase by the WTBS legal machine.
Any thought from the "THINK TANK"? Let's go
EX ALTO FULGOR
CornerStone

Hello U.R.,
One man or woman, (or even boy or girl), CAN make a difference. I know this is simplistic, wishful thinking but I think it is important to keep hope alive. SOMONE will yank the almighty WT right off the "seat of Moses" where they have sat there fat, well fed butts on for so long at the expense of many. Then the "birds of the air" will feed on THEM for a change.
CornerStone
RunningMan

The value of this case is not in the winning, but in the fighting.
When a case of this nature is reported, bad publicity is felt by
the organization. Any church that is accused this way is cast
in an unfavorable light, and sooo many of the public are just looking
for an excuse to look down on JW's. They have held themselves
up as more upright than everyone else for a long time.
The case gives a huge amount of ammunition to householders to
fire at Witnesses when they come to the doors. And you never
know, there may be some JW thinkers and stragglers who will
wake up because of the issue.
So, onward with the law suits.
By the way, my cousin is in Toronto Bethel. He says that the
society is sending one of their kitchen workers to university to
become a lawyer. I suspect that real lawyers are a considerable
drain on their finances. Even if they win, these cases cost a
bundle, unless they fight with kitchen help, which stacks the
deck against them.
Amazing

Hi Mad: I think you are incorrect that everyone on the DB rejected your recommendations 100%. I did not. I just did not comment as likely many others may not have commented.
Your assessment of the new Berry case is incorrect, and is suggestive that you lack total objectivity. Elders of a church who have access to knowing who the pedophiles are clearly have a fiduciary obligation to the other church memeers. This is not 'private' as the JW leaders may try to argue. Their meetings welcome the unsuspecting public, even referring to their Sunday talk as a Public talk. The JW system places great responsibility on the Elders to render an accounting for them before God. The Elders are qualified, groomed, trained, appointed, and directed by the Watch Tower Society and its Governing Body. The closed system they promote does require a JW to rely on the Society and its Elders to a far greater extent than in other churches. Their duty is far greater in this respect to protect the children that are in their purview.
The legal technicalities may not allow for a successful win on the part of the Plaintiffs, but this was also the case in the Tobbaco industry and the many unsuccessful lawsuits against them for decades until eventually their house of cards collasped in the largest lawsuits in US history. The embarassment and public shame brought against the Tobbaco industry has forced many changes for the better. Likewise, the Barry suit, like many before it, is one of many steps to an end goal ... force the Watch Tower leaders to change a very bad policy that leads to shielding child molesters. - amazing
MadApostate

Amazing:
IMO: If you are correct about your assertions in paragraph #2, there would be no need for your backpeddling in paragraph #3.
waiting

Hey Amazing,
If your point is - that a person may be correct, may have the law behind them, may have to go into uncharted waters of law (as with the tobacco industry), may generate the publicity, and still may loose, I agree.
Hey MadApostate
As to discussion - obviously with the amount of posts under my name - I'm all for it. But it doesn't mean that all speculations, accusations, seemingly unimportant facts, have to be put on the forum.
I've been in several law suits - and the first thing my lawyer told me was to not talk about the case - to anyone. Just shut up, nadda, not a word, loose lips sink ships, don't care if it is your best friend (they have a best friend too), be quiet, hush your mouth, woman.
I didn't appreciate it - and he said "Tough. That's the way it is."
He also told me to keep my feet still under the table in the courtroom. "A twitching foot is a dead giveaway to 'something's afoot.' Don't give 'em anything they can use."
In retrospect, having kept my mouth shut (for the most part), I agree with him. And he's got the wins to back up his words.
As for this forum not jumpin' on your suggestions with a positive flow, did it ever occur to you that some on this forum may just not agree with you? Just because you think it's a dandy idea doesn't make it necessarily so.
It doesn't mean we don't like you, honeybuns.
waiting
Utopian Reformist

Hi Waiting:
I agree with most of what you posted, however, if you don't mind, I would like to add a few thoughts to mix in this "legal stew" we are
brewing today...
First, although it may sound clever and authoritative that an attorney reprimands and scolds clients into certain behaviors, like "keep your mouth shut", "that's the way it is" and "don't fidget in the courtroom", you might give consideration to the additional motivations for such advice.
Remember, I am saying there are additional reasons why they give such harsh advice besides the obvious...for example:
Attorneys are taught and learn from experience to pay attention to body language, to learn to manipulate the direction and flow of thoughts and conversations, search for weaknesses, etc...
It means that most attorneys ASSUME the client needs to be controlled or regulated. Posting any and all information about the WTBS is in fact safe on this board, no matter what anyone says because the goal is publicity. The respected and experienced posters here do not need to be adjusted, regulated or controlled, like some client on an insurance case, or personal injury suit.
The next reason attorneys desire to "control" client behavior is to maximize the profit potential and minimize the possibility of defeat. Remember, in any judicial district, state or federal, all attorneys are officers of the court (both sides in any case) and all of them are members of the local, state and possibly national bar associations.
They all "sleep" in the same beds together, they only want to keep hot information to themselves for profit and settlement reasons, not because it jeopardizes the case or changes the evidence.
The whole system is a racket. My father used to say ( in sicilian dialect):
If you want to have a good, quiet life and keep some of the money you earn, then stay away from three kinds of people; the clergy, the doctors and most important of all, the lawyers!
If you want to have
RedhorseWoman

I have to agree with RunningMan on this. It's not so much the wins or losses, but the fact that this information is finally getting out in the open.
For years the WTBTS has touted the "fact" that their organization is one that is clean.....spotless.....without blemish...and this is one point that they always hold up as a "proof" that the JWs have the "truth".
They have repeatedly waved the dirty laundry of every other religious group in the world (with the emphasis on the Catholic Church) to "prove" that these religions were false.
Now they have their own dirty laundry, and these court cases are making it evident to the world. As more suits are filed, they will be less able to deny the fact that the WTBTS organization is riddled with criminals that they have chosen to hide from public view.
waiting

Hello UR,
Nice to meet you. You made some good points, and I didn't even call you "honeybuns." Go figure.
It means that most attorneys ASSUME the client needs to be controlled or regulated. Posting any and all information about the WTBS is in fact safe on this board,
To be a new poster here, you sure do use a lot of superlatives. We don't know all information - as in the papers put on the board yesterday. Only a select - highly limited - amount of persons knew about this, until they posted the information. All posters do not have to know "any and all information about the WTBS."
no matter what anyone says because the goal is publicity.
How can you say this using the word "anyone"? What, specifically, is your background to offer such definitive statements? It's definitely not because you're known here with 41 posts under your name.
The respected and experienced posters here do not need to be adjusted, regulated or controlled, like some client on an insurance case, or personal injury suit.
And who determines which poster is respected and experienced - you? Or do we make assumptions, which can be little more than guesswork about exactly who is respected and experienced and in what areas?
The respected and experienced posters here do not need to be adjusted, regulated or controlled, like some client on an insurance case, or personal injury suit.
Every person is adjusted, regulated or controlled in some way, here and in every other aspect of their lives. Try making 26 posts in a 24 hour time period.
Even if a person was totally isolated, they would be adjusted, regulated, and controlled by nature, their abilities, and the lack of human interaction. When human interaction appears - they normally regulate & adjust again to that situation.
No one gets it for free - in or out of court.
waiting

BERRY LAWSUIT EVALUATED

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