Very good apologetics for honest seekers (page 2)

poppers

Satanas,
Maybe I should get off my medication for acid reflux so I too can feel the "burn."

Hey Satin,
I will gladly be thought of as a fool by any who choose to believe that. The payoffs are great indeed, when a true 'seeker' contacts me and I send them to those who can disciple them! Yes, I am having a 'great affect' and it is in the way some berate what they can't debate. I only hope that one day you and I will be calling each other 'brother'. God Bless!
Rex

Shining One

Hey Abs,
Doing what JWs do is not my idea of good exgesis. I can make Watchtowerites spin in circles with valid hermeneutics and interpretation, when they stay around long enough or stay on one subject. You can plain Bible 'ping-pong' with those who are scriptural babes for laughs. My game is much more serious: its all about Jesus and seeing Him save souls; quicken those who are dead in their sins. It does no good to 'win' a debate when you fail to plant a seed of truth in their heart. Have no fear, there is a life of sound and reasonable faith out here: its just buried by all of the smoke and mirrors that many here use to distract one another.
Rex

Jeffro

Extract from a table at http://www.carm.org/evidence/massacre.htm

3 B.C.- Archelaus (Herod's son) kills 3000 Jews in the Temple

- 0 - Note that the chronology of Jesus' birth is probably 4 years too late. Therefore, Jesus was probably born around 4 B.C.)

1 A.D. - War in Germany

Should we really trust a source that suggests there was a year 0?

Shining One

Hey Poppers,
If that is a serious inquiry please feel free to e-mail me. I will respect your anonymity.
Rex

peacefulpete

here's a sample quote from the link about miracles:

Before we can decide whether or not miracles can happen, we must first define what a miracle is. Basically, a miracle is an event that cannot be normally explained through the laws of nature.

First note the loaded definition. Couched in words like "basically" and "normally" the definition is made flexible enough to accomodate most any argumentation that follows. Also to suggest that what religion means by "miracle" is simply 'events that cannot be explained through laws of nature' is being dishonest. Miracles are not unexplained events, they are events being explained as supernatural. The difference is quite dramatic. The entire argument that followed the above quote hinged upon that loaded and inaccurate definition. It was argued that because humans don't know everything in the universe they should believe in miracles. This does not follow. It is precisely because of humble acknowlwedgment of what they don't know that truth seekers patiently wait for logical and verifiable explanations for what is not readily explainable. Science is truth seeking, even if at times individuals get distracted in the process, the scientific method of patient testing and careful observation has produced a wealth of understanding not possible through hasty assumptions of the supernatural.

Carmel

" If the critics of the Bible dismiss the New Testament as reliable information, then they must also dismiss the reliability of the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Caesar, Homer, and the other authors mentioned in the chart at the beginning of the paper. On the other hand, if the critics acknowledge the historicity and writings of those other individuals, then they must also retain the historicity and writings of the New Testament authors; after all, the evidence for the New Testament's reliability is far greater than the others. "

Rex, but this same standard, one must accept the authenticity of the Gita, Senda Vesta, the Quran and other documented revelation writings. The miricles of Zarathurata and of Mithra are as believable as those claimed in the NT about Jesus.

I'm not claiming the NT is not authentic, just want you to realize how the concept of "authenticating" has to be extended.

carmel

Cognitive_Dissident

: Doing what JWs do is not my idea of good exgesis.

Rex, the impact of pretentious diction is lost when you don't spell the word correctly. Not that you're going over anyone's head anyway.

Regarding miracles and their given definitions, peaceful pete, you made an excellent point when you said "Miracles are not unexplained events, they are events being explained as supernatural." That is a huge distinction. By calling something a miracle, you've then closed the door on further discovery. A person who has tied their belief in miracles to the strength of their faith is going to resist scientific refutation of a so called miracle with everything they can muster. Because who wants a scientist telling them they lack faith, right? Oh, shoot, gotta go, my dog is chasing his tail again.

ISP

Shining One...

Why didn't Paul not ever quote any of Jesus illustrations, parables, miracles...sermon on the mount content...Lords Prayer etc...in any of his letters to the early church?

ISP

DannyBloem

A lot to read, but here some quotes from it.....

Never admitting when you are wrong
Pride is a harmful thing. It caused the fall. It ruins marriages. It leads to anger and self-righteousness. It has no place in the Christian's life. Never admitting you are wrong is being prideful. If an atheist, or anyone, proves you wrong in something, be kind and courteous. Admit you made a mistake and go on.

Ignoring Atheists' Questions
If you were standing on a railroad track and a train was heading your way, closing your eyes and ignoring the locomotive will not make it go away. If an atheist asks a question and you ignore it repeatedly, it would be fair for him to conclude you were incapable of answering the objection.

Generally, atheists are not stupid. Many of them have thought through their position over a long period of time. Some were raised in religious homes, have seen what religion has to offer, and have rejected it.

Some atheists have presented very cogent arguments against the existence of God -- which need to be addressed -- and rest their eternity on their arguments.

Maybe I'll post some more......

Very good apologetics for honest seekers

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