Very good apologetics for honest seekers (page 9)

myelaine

Dear AlanF,

MY definition of sin...any action or thought that MY conscience convicts ME of being... God dishonoring.

michelle

AlanF

myelaine wrote:

: MY definition of sin...any action or thought that MY conscience convicts ME of being... God dishonoring.

Ok, that's your personal definition. But a lot of Christians will agree that it's at best incomplete, since according to the Bible, a person can commit a sin without being aware of it. Also, if a person has a wrong idea about some action, her conscience might convict her improperly. For example, the JWs wrongly teach that blood transfusions are against God's law, and JWs who violate their improperly trained consciences will unnecessarily convict themselves of sin.

In order to have an intelligent discussion of sin, we're obligated to use a complete definition, not just a personal one. In line with this, I asked you to incorporate any and all definitions from the Bible, since that book supposedly defines sin for all Christians. So how about giving it a shot?

AlanF

jgnat

Hey, "Shining One", do you address all posters to your thread, or only those who manage to tick you off? I am a regular Christian. You may consider me something of an older sister, if you could discern from a single thread that my acquisition of the label "Christian" were valid in your eyes.

I laugh along with AlanF, because you have bounced around in the muck from one argument to another, slithering away from incisive reasoning. Then you turn around and mock someone for returning with a "one liner". You are a joke, and I won't bother to discuss spiritual matters unless you start addressing single issues and carry them to the logical end.

To start with, you use "trigger words" that would set any xJW's teeth on edge. For that alone, your message is lost on them. Let's start with your title: "Re: Very good apologetics for honest seekers". In every WT article, the word seeker or Christian is always modified with these types of value judgements. Many JW's are miserable, but are somehow convinced they deserve it, because of value judgements like these. They don't feel near to God because they are not honest in their searching, or sincere enough or earnest enough. In their misery, they also convince themselves that those out in the "world", including you, are not genuinely happy, because they are not honest seekers after truth, as they strive to be. It is linguistic manipulation at it's worst, and your language is full of it. You have started out on the wrong foot, and I don't see how you could recover from it. You would have to start over with straightforward language.

I fear that will not happen because just like the deceived JW's, you have convinced yourselves that opponents like AlanF are not honest seekers of the truth. In your own mind, that has given you permission to ignore him.

You are not a very good apologist, and you are fighting the wrong enemy. I am interested in seeing how you react to my criticisms. Will you judge my comments honest or not? If you judge me to be of the same company of AlanF, I'll send him a virtual bouquet. I could do worse to chew the fat with men of his calibre. If you consider your own log, then we can start discussing the slivers.

AlanF

Rex, jgnat is a fine example of what a Christian should be, as are many of my other friends. You are a lousy example, and in fact, it's people like you who turn a great many people off to Christianity. But Fundies are far too stupid and arrogant to understand this. They're far too wrapped up in the stupidity of self-righteousness to understand the finer points of Christianity, and like the JWs, who are also Fundies, are experts in straining out the gnat and swallowing the camel.

AlanF

Pole

jgnat is a fine example of what a Christian should be

I second that. She's a keewl Christian!
Pole

jgnat

Awwwe! I am getting all misty-eyed here. I like a living Christianity that includes mailing cookies around the world for no other reason than it is unexpected.

Pole, I would love to start a thread some day that discusses the restless searching that appears to be hard-wired in to humanity. That same thing that makes us miserable also makes us smart. I think. I have a sneaking suspicion that an intelligent machine, without drive, just sits. People don't sit.

Cognitive_Dissident

Shining One,A)you said"If you don't like my opinion then just ignore me," -- this explains why you ignore anyone who disputes your logic. Also, you are not stating things as opinion, you are stating them as truth.
B)you said"but don't pretend that you have the corner on truth ,facts and integrity." --this is exactly what you are doing.
C)you said"Your whining about God is pathetic and arrogant." --I previously took a cheap shot at your spelling, which you pointed out. I posted, on page 1 of this thread,
":Doing what JWs do is not my idea of good exgesis ." --Shining One
Rex, the impact of pretentious diction is lost when you don't spell the word correctly. Not that you're going over anyone's head anyway."
I apologize, it was an ad hominem attack, but you did not respond at all to the comments that followed, which addressed your argument. In your comment above, you not only resort to flat out name-calling, you again don't address the issue.
C)you said1) God rules by divine providence.
2) Man knew the rules.
3) Man broke the rules.
4) Man chose to rebel, separating himself from God.
5) God covered man's sin.
6) God provided a savior for man.
7) He died for man to be reconciled: He took the hit.
8) YOU have a choice. -- again, to use your own words, "don't pretend that you have the corner on truth, facts and integrity." You list these eight things as if they are established and undisputed fact, not just your opinion.
D)you said"If Christianity is true, you are eternally damned; if it is not true you are eventually just dead." --this is just a narrow-minded, twisted interpretation of Pascal's Wager.

(Edited to get link working and highlight text appropriately)

Shining One

Hi Jignat,
I have no idea where you are coming from, nor your foundational beliefs. I cannot presume to comment without some idea. In the final analysis it is really irrelevant. If you have a better, more 'honest' way to 'defend the faith' from naturalists bent on convincing people to have no faith, then be my guest....
What are you doing to "to always give a reason for your faith'?
Rex

Shining One

Dear Fellow Christian Jignat,
Any work that is giving to others is commendable. What's not commendable is compromising with those who seek to destroy the faith that you claim to represent (see 'salt and light', does your church preach the gospel or stand for anything?).
Rex

jgnat

I see. You need more information about my brand of Christianity before you can judge whether my comments have veracity. I'm a follower of Christ. Carry on then.

Very good apologetics for honest seekers

Share this