WHY THE MEMORIAL? (page 2)

jwfacts

Ham...

They are great points. I am continually stunned at how many scriptures i missed in all my years of 'in depth' bible (WTS) study.

I only recently realised that the WTS teaches that the great crowd do not inherit the earth, Jesus words about the earth at Mat 5 is said to apply to Jesus and the 144,000.

I would like to get together a list of Watchtower quotes that show that most of the New Testament does not apply to the Great Crowd. I also am after scriptures that show that the New Testament shows people must be born again, will go to heaven etc. If anyone can point me somewhere relevant i would appreciate it.

Thanks
Paul

heathen

We usually wait for memorial time to trash the WTBTS over this one . It's a big money raiser for them mostly . I've given it very close examination myself and I know I felt like an idiot passing bread and wine around without eating or drinking . I feel it's a form of idolotry to make symbols that are so holy that all you can do is pass them around . The bible clearly states that only those that will eat and drink even bother to show up . I think jesus meant that when he arrived in kingdom power that the marriage feast of the lamb would be the last feast . You know there still is no reason why the j-dubs couldn't at least make a church supper out of it because jesus did eat and drink more than the symbolic stuff . What a bunch of retards ........

cyberguy

It's my understanding that JW's believe in 3 returns of Christ. They say returned in 1914, then 1918 to inspect the "temple class," then he'll return yet again at some future date, "very soon now".

heathen

cyberguy --- the 1914 date was when jesus cleared out satan from heaven and began to examine the churches of christiandom thus deciding on the bible students . So far according to the WTBTS jesus only returned once , invisibly of course . They believe he arrived in kingdom power in 1914 . It's clear he did not break the nations thus the doctrine was altered to a state of invivible presence where he rules amidst his enemies until the time when jehovah lays waste to his enemies . To me the arrival in kingdom power is when he breaks the nations with his iron sceptor . I agree that the bible depicts both the great crowd and the little flock as being in heaven . The difference is that the 144k are there as co rulers with christ and the great crowd are saved to live on earth . I don't think the WTBTS has the facts straight on all of it .

jwfacts

Heathen,

What you believe is what Russell taught, because it is pretty clear from the scripture that the GC would be in heaven. It was Rutherford that put the GC on earth, along with the doctrine of narrow salvation.

Narkissos

This is slightly off-topic, but another very good question to ask imo (it was suggested by another poster a few months ago) is: why are the "other sheep" baptised if they cannot partake in the Memorial? In the NT (especially in Paul) baptism and the Eucharist are complementary "sacraments" or symbols of union with Christ, shared by the same people. I don't think the WT has ever dealt with this issue.

Fe2O3Girl

But JW converts are not baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, so it isn't really the same as the baptism described in the scriptures.

JW baptism is in the name of the WT.

Narkissos

But JW converts are not baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, so it isn't really the same as the baptism described in the scriptures.
JW baptism is in the name of the WT.

Well, that's an argument, but I doubt the WT would use it.

The mention of the organisation in the baptism questions came up in the early 80s -- even now afaik the questions still mention God, Jesus and the Spirit, in obvious reference to Matthew 28:18ff (which is usually discussed, and directly applied to the candidates, in the baptism talk). I don't remember reading that the baptism of the "other sheep" (TM) has any other meaning that the baptism of the "anointed". Btw, if somebody claims to be anointed after he has been baptised he is not supposed to be rebaptised (so any appeal to the idea of "another baptism" like the baptism of John, e.g. Acts 19, is ruled out).

Cygnus

If you dig deep in your WTS CDROM you'll find their convulted answers. I'm not feeling well so don't count on me doing it but they do have "answers" albeit twisted ones.

WHY THE MEMORIAL?

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