Okay, I got a Kingdom Interlinear Translation Bible.... Now what?

by hubert 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Cygnus

  If you wanna know why there's tons of information on the net. "Before Abraham I am" is horrible grammar, for starters. The greek construction differs greatly from other ego eimi statements made in John. Even the one uttered by the blind man that was healed by Jesus (does that make the blind man YHWH?). In Jn 8:58 Jesus was saying "I was, and still am." Thus, "I have been."

  Jesus likely spoke in Aramaic. The Jews would have had to translate what he said into Greek and think of Exodus 3 which was written in Hebrew, within a matter of microseconds. And, John's greek gospel didn't have Jesus saying 'ego eimi ho on' ("I am The Being") which is what YHWH is recorded as saying in the LXX.

  There's a hell of a lot better ways to 'prove' Jesus' eternal Godship than by using the Bible, any Bible.

  Bolded type is my edit.
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  bennyk

  re: John 8:58:

  One might also compare John 9:9, in both the Greek and the translation....
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  Deputy Dog

  Cygnus

  If Jesus was not calling Himself God in that passage, why did the scribes and the Pharisees want to stone Him in verse 59? I think they knew He meant "I am The Being"

  Or do you think that saying that you were older than Abraham would get you killed back then?

  D Dog
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  Narkissos

  One very good place to go to for a start is Romans, especially chapters 10 and 14. Note the uses of the noun kurios (Lord) and the related verb kurieuô (to rule, to be a lord). Notice the logical connections (e.g. gar, "for, because" or oun, "therefore") to get how the Pauline reasoning works. Then turn to the NWT and see how the argument is destroyed by the "Jehovah" substitution. This is quite easy and enlightening.

  Another interesting spot is John 14. In verse 14 there is an obvious instance where the NWT doesn't follow its Westcott & Hort textual basis, omitting the me (if YOU ask [me] anything in my name, I will do it") which W&H retain (whether they are right or wrong is another matter). In verses 10, 11, 20 note how the translation of en ("in") by "in union with" turns a paradoxical reciprocity (I am in the Father and the Father is in me: the two clauses say something different and their juxtaposition creates yet another meaning) into a mere tautology (I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me: both clauses actually say the same thing and their formal repetition in reverse order becomes meaningless). Also note how inconsistent this is with other uses of en in the same context (e.g. v. 17, "the spirit of the truth" which is "in you").
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  Pole

  : Jesus likely spoke in Aramaic.
  LOL. I just love those arguments. Sorry.. back to the topic...
  Pole
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  Neo

  Link: Kingdom Interlinear Bible
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  ithinkisee

  Heh. Neo ... that is the link I was just going to post.

  Nice one. That is a good link HUbert.

  -ithinkisee
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  minimus

  Stilla stole my response!
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  Narkissos

  Cygnus: What might appear to be an acceptable rendering of egô eimi in the micro-context of John 8:58 is not acceptable anymore when you have in view the global context of the fourth Gospel, where the absolute use of the clause (i.e., without a predicate) is an obvious catch phrase loaded with theological overtones (clearly in 8:24,28,58; 12:26; 13:19; 18:5ff; very probably in 4:26; 6:20; 9:9; 13:13). In such a case if you lose the formal correspondence between those occurrences, under the pretext of contextual translation, you lose the main point of the text.

  Btw, the clearest LXX background is not Exodus 3 but Second Isaiah where a similar absolute use of the phrase is equally recurring. E.g. 43:10 (!):

  that you may know and believe and understand that I am (egô eimi).
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  Cordelia

  vm44 why what is the difference in the two bibles ive got the dark blue one?

  my dad got it for me, the funny thing is he studied ancienct greek, we used to have to listen to a tape in the car with people saying the vowels etc (sounded like someone was killing a cat) and yet he is still deep into the 'truth' youd think it would of opened his eyes!