Scotland worst for violence ! America is not bad :)

by Simon 25 Replies latest social current

  • hillbilly
    hillbilly

    Jack... I dont have empirical evidence at hand..I bet a close look will show that many handgun murders occur with stolen handguns.

    Domestic murders (spouses/kids) may happen with guns 'owned' by a household member. Not that it makes domestic homicide right or justified... the stats get lumped together and it muddles the issue at times. A lot of times domenstic homicides are "crimes of passion" and would be expidited with a ball bat or kitchen knife if a firearm was not availible.

    Suicides are the same boat...anyone can buy a rope at any hardware store with no ID background check or permit.... works really well if one is motivated to die at their own hand.

    I dont worry about a family member shooting me with one of the many handguns owned and stored at my home... I do worry about some gang banger or thug trying to 'jack my wheels or rob a store while I am present. Matter of fact I've been there and done that...Smith and Wesson saved my bacon.

    Guns dont kill people..people kill people.

    ~Hill

  • tijkmo
    tijkmo
    The figure for Scotland dwarfs

    maybe we just have a higher percentage of little people

  • Reefton Jack
    Reefton Jack

    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. "

    Maybe.......... but it is a bloody sight easier to kill somebody with a firearm - which is why the things were invented in the first place.

  • Simon
    Simon
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. "

    Actually, guns kill very few people. It's bullets that are the problem.

    I think the difference in levels of violence and murder rates is directly attributable to guns and lack of guns:

    Where guns are less prevalent there is still violence but it tends not to be fatal because knives, while dangerous are less lethal than a gun. Where there is free access to firearms there is perhaps the same (?) level of violence but more of this violence is likely to involve firearms and so be lethal.

  • Reefton Jack
    Reefton Jack

    Simon:

    A typical Pommie remark about bullets - I like it!

    I can't resist adding though, that bullets on their own are of little harm, without a gun with which to discharge them from.

    Your comments about violence being much more lethal when firearms are involved is right on. Having grown up around firearms as I have, you have a healthy respect for just how deadly the things are.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Sorry Simon, you might feel there is a direct linkage but it is not that simple, like I said.

    Look at Switzerland; very high gun ownership, very low homicide rate - and typically gun ownership in Switzerland consists of an automatic pistol and a assault rifle in the cellar of every man between 20 and 42 (from memory).

    Look at this graph I took and added to from a few sources;

    CountryYearPopulationTotal HomicideFirearm HomicideNon-Gun HomicideSuicide% of National Income/Consumption of Poorest 20%% Households With Guns
    United States1999272,691,0005.73.721.986.085.239
    Finland19945,088,3333.240.862.38 1023.2
    Italy199256,764,8542.251.660.59 8.716
    Scotland19945,132,4002.240.192.050.276.14.7
    Canada199228,120,0652.160.761.42.657.529.1
    Australia199417,838,4011.860.441.42 5.919.4
    New Zealand19933,458,8501.470.171.3 6.222.3
    Belgium19909,967,3871.410.60.81 8.316.6
    England/Wales199751,429,0001.410.111.30.226.14.7
    Switzerland19947,021,0001.320.580.745.786.927.2
    Sweden19938,718,5711.30.181.12 9.615.1
    Germany199481,338,0931.170.220.95 8.28.9
    France199457,915,4501.120.440.68 7.222.6
    Netherlands199415,382,8301.110.360.75 7.21.9
    Norway19934,324,8150.970.30.67 9.732
    Spain199339,086,0790.950.210.74 7.513.1
    http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html
    http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_inc_dis_poo_20#

    My reading of the trends on this are that countries with high gun ownership do not neccesarily have high gun homicides. In additon to availability, people have to have a reason to use the guns.

    Look at how both the Swiss and Americans "benefit" from having high gun ownership, by having high levels of gun suicides, with Canada fitting the trend very well.

    Look at how the USA has high gun ownership AND how it's poorest 20% are 12% worse off than any other country (the USA's distribution of wealth is akin to African or Latin American countries rather than European countries).

    It is the COMBINATION of those two (and obviously other factors) that give the USA it's high gun homicide rate, not just gun availability.

    Availability of guns is not what kills people.

    Guns don't kill people, it's being in a social underclass with no reasonable hope of escape (see my recent comments on other threads about how the USA's educational system ghettoises the poor no matter what race) and a feeling of disengagement from mainstream society that makes people use guns to kill people. .

    Not as catchy, but far truer than "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

    The killing is either as part of competition between black market traders, like drug dealers or of others out of the underclass as they have shit that is worth something. Add in the incrased ease of blowing away a family memeber when you're feeling pissy (the kind of a thing that ends in bruises or a yelling match with no firearms in the house), and WHALLA!, you have the highest murder rate in the civilised world, although that looks like an oxymoron now I have typed it...

    The indifference of American politicians to this stagnant unchanging situation, and the resultant diengagement of those affected by it is what makes the USA's gun homicide rate so high. It is a social issue, not a supply issue.

    Either that, or American's simply like killing each other, but I don't believe that for a second...

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    Damn...we'll just have to try harder...there's always next year...losing to bunch of kilt wearing, caber tossing Scots.

    Next year...we go for the gold!

    u/d(of the bullets don't kill people...it's the hole they leave behind class)

  • littlerockguy
    littlerockguy

    Speaking of Little Toe, where has he been? Are you lurking around here somewhere?

  • kwintestal
    kwintestal

    I'm shocked that 29% of Canadian households have a gun. Can that be right?

    Kwin

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    Maybe that's why rugby is so popular there... all that pent up rage...and no guns to shoot at arseholes that seriously deserve it...

    For that matter...the soccer hooligans...can you imagine if they had guns....?

    Chill out...I'm just funnin...

    u/d

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