Great Crowd vs. Other Sheep

by prophecor 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  prophecor

  Would someone briefly help me understand the divide that exist between the great crowd and the remnant, 144,000 who go to heaven? What scriptural backing does the society use to justify their position that they are the only ones who are able to enjoy a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ, where those of the " Great Crowd " are only granted a relationship through extension through the 144,000?

  I've been around The Truth for a large portion of my life, never really knowing this was an issue. Now that I'm no longer a practicing Jehovah's Witness, many of the things that I once just took for granted, I no longer have as a luxury.

  Thanks in advance.

  Archie
• 

  prophecor

  In brief this is what got me to thinking about this situation.

  New York in Bethel Minute your new avatar is simply priceless.
• 

  LittleToe

  It's basically built upon "I have other sheep that are not of this fold" scripture, segregating out the "one flock, one shepherd" bit to another purpose.

  They then looked for other scriptures to support this two-tier view, such as one potential reading of Rev.7 (omitting the end of the chapter which highlights that this "great crowd" has free access into the temple which is sup[posed to reside in heaven).

  I'm sure someone like Blonde can supply a literature quote (or Quotes site).
• 

  Sam the Man

  Hi,

  The Society points to Rev7:9, where it speaks of a 'great crowd' standing before the lamb. However, they insist that the term in the context 'standing before the lamb' is to be interpreted as standing on earth. The 144,000 however, stand before the lamb in heaven. They conveniently forget the fact that if we go to Rev19v1, we can see that the Great crowd stands in heaven.

  They also insist that when Jesus Christ spoke of '" I have other sheep which are not of this fold…" (John 10:16). Apparently, Jesus was then addressing the 144000, which meant that he was referring to those of the earthly hope.

  The Watchtower decided that 1935 was the cut off point, and anybody born after that date has an earthly hope. This is based on no scriptual fact whatsoever.
• 

  prophecor
• 

  confusedjw

  P,

  Check out this site. It's a summary of a brochure written by a former fat cat at Bethel. It took me about 3 read throughs to fully get it, but it does a great job in blowing out of the water the concept that the "great crowd" is on earth.

  http://www.xjw.com/where.html
• 

  Ingenuous

  I was taught that there's also a difference between the "Great Crowd" and the "Other Sheep". The "Other Sheep" include all those Jehovah's Witnesses who have ever had an earthly hope, living and dead [All "other sheep not of this fold" John 10:16]. The "Great Crowd" is made up only of "Other Sheep" who survive Armageddon ["These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation" Rev. 7:14].
• 

  jwfacts

  In line with what Ingenuous said, the Great Crowd are the Armageddon surviving Other Sheep, hence the WT term "The Great Crowd of Other Sheep."
• 

  jwfacts

  In line with what Ingenuous said, the Great Crowd are the Armageddon surviving Other Sheep, hence the WT term "The Great Crowd of Other Sheep."
• 

  garybuss

  Applications are being accepted for both other sheep and great crowd designations. The other sheep are not judged yet, the great crowd is not identified yet. One group is a delusion, the other group is a concept.
  On the exact date of a failed fixed date the uninspired, non-prophet wrote:
  "So we do not know exactly when Jehovah’s great “rest day” began, nor do we know exactly when it will end. The same applies to the beginning of Christ’s millennial reign. The Bible provides us no way to fix the date, and so it does us no good to speculate when that date may be." (The Watchtower, 1975 October 1, p. 579)
  The current message is . . . We don't have a clue!