Posts by exWTslave

2

Did a lack of unity mean that the Corinthians were not Christian?

by I_love_Jeff in

so the jehovah's witnesses say:.

hebrews 10:25 uses the phrase not forsaking our meeting together.

those words show that god wants people to gather as an organized group for worship.-http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201407/religion/.

exWTslave

Nice thought, makes sense--something that GB can NEVER come to terms with! Accepting disagreement means no more GB, hence it is a question of existence for them.

6

this is my half reason i canlt leave jws;s is i need them.. for now... the same elder that gave me $100 when m wife just gave birth... and helped me find our car.... helped me find guys to help me move.

moving from an apartment to a trailer.. but... as much as i love these guys as people i know they only help because they are witnesses.... .

i still need them for now.. if i ever can get my wife out of this it meansit's alot arder.. oh well.

exWTslave

“If people are good only because they fear PUNISHMENT and hope for REWARD, then we are a sorry lot, indeed.”—Einstein

5

Is This Not Blaspheme?

by Pinku in

is this not blaspheme?.

there three broad views on (the purpose of) life:.

1) life arose out of nothing and will return to it.

exWTslave

I don’t agree with your description that JWs are “the spicy version” of the third category. It is actually the harmful and dangerous version of the third category, because:

It makes the ALMIGHTY CREATOR simply dependant on His creatures! God is portrayed as too sensitive about His sovereignty and as willing to go to any extreme to re-establish His sovereignty. And this what is being copied among JWs—any differing voice is treated as a sovereignty-issue and as a rebellion against the “head” in the organization and even in family! Hence the only unifying factor among the Jehovah’s Witnesses is the FEAR factor!

4

A preaching organization is at odds with the larger picture Bible presents!

by exWTslave in

1) god makes no distinction between his own people and pagans.

(leviticus 19:33, 34; mathew 5:44-48; acts 17:26, 29; galatians 3:28).

2) people who know the will of god will be judged, on the basis of that knowledge;.

exWTslave

1) God makes no distinction between his own people and pagans. (Leviticus 19:33, 34; Mathew 5:44-48; Acts 17:26, 29; Galatians 3:28)

2) People who know the will of God will be judged, on the basis of that knowledge;
People who do not know the will of God will be judged, on the basis of their conscience. (Romans 2:11-15, 25-27)

Need of preaching and its urgency are a later development (Act 20-28-30). Interestingly, WT Soceity rarely comments on the verses of Romans 2:11-15, 25-27.

When I discussed the above verses with a former Bethelite couple, they made this interesting comments: “When we confidentially expressed our disagreement with one of Society’s teachings, we were disfellowshipped. JC was on one Sunday, and we had to leave the Bethel the very next day as we had to do a lot of packing. But we attended the Monday morning wroship in the Bethel Dining Hall. Immediately after the morning worship program, two Bethel Elders came to our room and said: ‘Branch Organisation book says Bethel cannot permit you to take food with rest of the Bethelites; but we can make arrangement for food in your own room till you leave Bethel.’ Though we left the same evening without taking any more food from Bethel, we were wondering what sort of organization we were in for last two decades—denying food for those who had been serving selflessly—one of us had even 60 Saturday offs without being availed of and the years of monthly offs too. It is to people like us they gave such a heartless, inhuman treatment. Yet one BC Member and an Elder from Bethel visited our home on April 12 th , this year, inviting us to come for Memorial celebration, and asking us to return to the “Motherly Organization.” This only SHOWS THEY DO NOT HAVE THE BASIC COMMON SENSE to know that people like us will never feel like returning to such an organization. How can such an organization lacking in such basic common sense understand even the basic teachings of the Bible?”

5

Suffering can be explained without Satan

by exWTslave in

grief is experienced in different degrees by different people though the happening is same.. 1) death of a father who is a bread-winner of the family brings in acute grief to the bereaved.. 2) death of a father who is a liability to the family brings no grief to the bereaved.. 3) death of a father who is a pedophile and womanizer brings joy to the bereaved.. this shows grief is more of perception than the loss, and is usually the result of limited vision.

once moved to a larger perspective, the very thing that causes suffering may produce even its opposite.

when one of our family members moves into another house, we dont grieve over it.

exWTslave

Thank you narrow hope!

You remembered about that book—That is wonderful! I am reading it now second time. This book really inspired me to write the above.

5

Suffering can be explained without Satan

by exWTslave in

grief is experienced in different degrees by different people though the happening is same.. 1) death of a father who is a bread-winner of the family brings in acute grief to the bereaved.. 2) death of a father who is a liability to the family brings no grief to the bereaved.. 3) death of a father who is a pedophile and womanizer brings joy to the bereaved.. this shows grief is more of perception than the loss, and is usually the result of limited vision.

once moved to a larger perspective, the very thing that causes suffering may produce even its opposite.

when one of our family members moves into another house, we dont grieve over it.

exWTslave

Grief is experienced in different degrees by different people though the happening is same.

1) Death of a father who is a bread-winner of the family brings in acute grief to the bereaved.

2) Death of a father who is a liability to the family brings no grief to the bereaved.

3) Death of a father who is a pedophile and womanizer brings joy to the bereaved.

This shows grief is more of perception than the loss, and is usually the result of limited vision. Once moved to a larger perspective, the very thing that causes suffering may produce even its opposite. When one of our family members moves into another house, we don’t grieve over it. Similarly, the wise do not mourn the death: “Death is merely moving from one home to another. The wise man will spend his main efforts in trying to make his future home the more beautiful one.” (Rabbi Menachem) (Compare Ecclesiastes 12:7; John 5:24; 8:51; 14:2; Luke 20:38)

In principle, there is no suffering, there is no joy, but there is only consequence. If the consequence suits ones convenience and comfort, it is viewed as joy; otherwise it is viewed as suffering. In the larger picture where there is no interpretation of consequences, there are only events—one thing leads to another. When “the works of the spirit” are chosen, results are determined, it will take people to glory! When the “works of the flesh” are chosen, their results are determined—it’s a matter of time that it will bring suffering to the person—whether he is President Nixon, Clinton or just any ordinary man.

Many may disagree saying Jesus was a good man, yet he had to suffer. This disagreement stems from casual reading. God’s will is that everyone should live faultlessly, and his life should be his message to others. (Mathew 5:16) Exposing others using scathing denunciation is not God’s way. (Proverbs 24:19; Mathew 5:44-48) Jesus was not consistent in his speech. He spoke politely with Satan and demons (Mathew 4:1-10; Luke 8:30), yet spoke roughly towards his parents (Luke 2:49; Mathew 12:46-50). The people of his home-town had actually been praising Jesus (Luke 4:15, 22), yet he irritated them FOR NO REASON. (Luke 4:23-27) Principle of “reap and sow” is in action in everyone’s case—people became “furious when they heard this. They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff.” (Luke 4:28-30) Finally, he called the Pharisees the “white-washed tombs” (Mathew 23:27) and whipped their men out of temple. (Mark 11:15-17) It too had its consequence: “The chief priests and the teachers of the law heard this and began looking for a way to kill him.” (Mark 11:18) Early Christians exhibited exclusivism, like JWs of today who claim: ‘only we are right and all others are wrong.’ They lacked larger perspective: Every religion is the offspring of its time, and cared for the need of the time, hence no one can criticize another’s religion. Perfection lies in all the religions collectively, not just in one religion. Hence early Christians had to pay for their limited vision—they were persecuted by Romans who viewed them as disturbance to the peace of the community.

Where is Satan in all these things?

One may say this is purely theoretical and his suffering is real! While bouts of suffering can be paralyzing, we always have the choice within us to transform it, based on how we respond to it. We can transform suffering into peace. It starts with realizing that happiness is our nature and stress is an outsider we invite thoughtlessly. (Luke 17:21) A student may be suffering from many things, yet when he is in examination hall, the few hours that he is writing his exam goes like a few minutes and he is completely unaware of the sufferings he was being tormented with till he entered the examination hall. He chooses not to think about things that cause suffering to him. This can actually be extended to beyond the time when he is in the examination hall. The key lies in the change in the attitude and in adopting the truth that nothing belongs to me—possession is an illusion (Mathew 5:3) and everything belongs to God. (Isaiah 54:5; Jeremiah 10:10)

A job loss can be perceived as a significant personal failure or we can relate to it as an integral part of work-life and an opportunity to reflect, retool and engage in something more meaningful. Research suggests that most people regain their original level of happiness after one year of job loss (people report similar results after one year of losing a loved one); eventually, many even regard the job loss to be the best thing that ever happened to them.

There is no lotus without mud! And there is no betterment without suffering! You cannot say day is good and night is bad—both are useful. This fact is best understood by people like J K Rowling (authoress of Harry Potter), who became a billionaire and ‘the most influential woman in Britain’. The first half of her life was like an ill-fated plane with too many failures in life, but she simply moved to a higher perspective transforming her suffering into success. The best comes from the worst! It is only when yoghurt is beaten and made smooth that butter can be made from it.

“The wound is the place where the Light enters you.” (Rumi) Instead of perceiving ourselves and others as imperfect, relating to everyone as unique creations of a perfect universe allows us to be more at peace with our reality. Further, choosing to help others who may be suffering from similar circumstances supports this inner transformation.

17

Amazing Experience while in the Door to Door field service.. The work really is speeding up.

by objectivetruth in

a pioneer sister who just returned from pioneer school, and her elder husband, who was previously in bethel are in service.. when they come to an enthusiastic house holder.

after discussing the glorious messianic kingdom that has been ruling since 1914,err 1919 the house holder says "ok this really is good news, what must i do to be saved??".

brother elder and sister pioneer elder both look at each other, and they know right away the best answer... sister pioneer reaches into her bag pulling out her km approved preaching tablet device (she waves it around a. bit, with the purpose of impressing the householder how advanced the wt is), she then says i want to show you our website, jw .

exWTslave

I really enjoyed your dynamism in playing a musical note with those two irreconcilable concepts—undeserved kindness and works!

kudos to you.

8

Witnessing to a Theologian

by exWTslave in

when i found my fellow traveler reading theology today magazine, my pioneer spirit acted.

i started witnessing to him without knowing he was a professor of theology.

he patiently listened to me.

exWTslave

Laika,

What is even STRANGER is that Luke claims his account is accurate and logical, yet his writings are shadowed by many things illogical. I am thankful to that Theologian (who is recently made a Bishop) who was only trying to help me, and I was really helped. I do not want to embarass him by revealing his name.

8

Witnessing to a Theologian

by exWTslave in

when i found my fellow traveler reading theology today magazine, my pioneer spirit acted.

i started witnessing to him without knowing he was a professor of theology.

he patiently listened to me.

exWTslave

When I found my fellow traveler reading Theology Today magazine, my pioneer spirit acted. I started witnessing to him without knowing he was a professor of Theology. He patiently listened to me. When I concluded, he started witnessing back to me. He said his own fleshly brother is a JW hence is familiar with JWs teaching. "Now listen to me carefully. I will give you some points for thought, not for arguing.

You people base all your teachings on the Bible whereas we base all our teachings both on Bible and tradition. That’s because Bible is inadequate on many counts. It can be used to preach from the pulpit—taking a portion/story from it and making practical application for the flock. But building an organization on its prophesies or building a career on it like you and my fleshly brother (who are pioneers) is not wise. For example, apostle Paul believed the end would come in the first century. (1 Corinthians 10:11)

Now take a Gospel as sample! Luke claims “accuracy” and “logical order” in his Gospel, (Luke 1:3) yet you will wonder how ‘accurate’ and how ‘logical’ his accounts are!

1) God rated Mary as “highly favored” or trustworthy (Luke 1:28), yet she did not bother to ensure that child Jesus was with her when she left the temple. (Luke 2:43) She realized child Jesus was not with her only after “one day.” (Luke 2:44) When found him after two days of searching, she was blaming child Jesus and he was blaming the parents. (Luke 2:48)

2) God’s Spirit led Jesus “into the wilderness” to be “tempted by the devil.” (Luke 4:1, 2) This is not “in order” because God will not lead anyone into temptation. (James 1:14) Then, Satan led Jesus “up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world.” (Luke 4:5) This is also not logical. Because Luke does not know that Satan is the creation of primitive human mind who did not know the shape of the earth! Here Satan unwittingly reflects the erroneous belief that earth is flat, hence he had to take Jesus into a high mountain so that both can see all the kingdoms of the earth. If Satan is real, a spirit person originally from Heaven, he should have known the true shape of earth! Satan offered all the Kingdoms of the world to Jesus in exchange for an act of worship. This too is not in order nor logical, because Jesus already knew that he has been promised “eternal kingship” by God Himself. (Luke 1:32, 33) And asking a person like Jesus to “convert stone into bread, and jump from temple top” does not befit the kind of spirit person called Satan.

3) When criticized by the Pharisees on petty matter (picking grain on Sabbath), Jesus tried to offer the counter, citing example of David whom God Himself rated as not being ideal (2 Sam 7:12, 13) Jesus’s logic was: If David can violate a law, we can also! (Luke 6:1-5) Who is unreasonable here—Pharisees or Jesus?

4) Hearing Jesus resurrected a widow’s son in Nain, the world became so excited, yet John the Baptist (Jesus’s own relative) doubts and “ask, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?” (Luke 7:11-19) What logic is it?

5) “One day Jesus said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side of the lake.” So they got into a boat and set out. As they sailed, he fell asleep. A squall came down on the lake, so that the boat was being swamped, and they were in great danger. The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Master, Master, we’re going to drown!” (Luke 8:22-24) That Jesus could not discern, in advance, a storm is not in order. (Storm can be discerned in advance and precisely be calculated when it will hit. http://www.eo.ucar.edu/kids/dangerwx/tstorm6.htm) Even when “the boat was being swamped” he did not get up on his own—this too is not in order as he was a perfect man with perfect sensitivity! Then he rebuked the wind and the raging waters; the storm subsided, and all was calm. In fear and amazement they asked one another, “Who is this? He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey him.” (Luke 8:26) Disciples who witnessed firsthand “the winds and the water” obeying Jesus abandoned him when he was caught by his enemies towards the end of his ministry—this too is not in order!"

He said: "We can go on and on 6) 7) 8) ......"

I responded with the usual WT conclusion. However, I knew that somewhere at the back of my mind I have started agreeing with him.

23

The Demons love the Watchtower !!

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

"i was very nearly trapped beyond hope of regaining freedom, in one.

of satan's most successful devices, viz., spiritism.

i was induced.

exWTslave

Very intersting find! This shows how low one can go in trying to prove "we are God's chosen people." But in the process they unwittingly collaborate with demons.

Interestingly, the same tactics could be found in Bible too. Gospel writers presents demons as prime advocates of Jesus--when they leave their victim they usually declare to Jesus: "I know who you are, you are the son of the Most High, you have come here to destroy us even before the time ..."