Posts by menrov

42

Preaching is a waste of time

by konceptual99 in

before anyone gives me the "bears/wood" similarities, this is a post based on insidethekh's reply on the mormon v jw thread.

(http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/287545/1/who-is-copying-who-jws-or-mormons) i like to see wt friendly posts on here as some of the wt bashing displays the same logical fallacies as levelled against the wts and it's followers so it's good to consider reasoned debate.. on the one hand i think itkh makes a fair point if you compare the worldwide success of mormons v jws but there is an overall context to the preaching work that is completely ignored by those fully "in" and has been a major factor in my move from being an active witness to one on the cusp of getting out.

from a statistical point of view there are great headline numbers presented by the wts but if you put them in the context of the number of witnesses, conversation ratios, ratio of new witnesses to birth rates, numbers that must be leaving, growth differentials across the globe, penetration in muslim nations and so on then these numbers become meaningless.

menrov

I do not think numbers are relevant at all. I see there are some doubts about the numbers reported by LDS. What about the numbers reported by WBTS? How do we know they are reliable? My point is, the WBTS has not always been "correct" in quoting others. Also te NWT has translation "errors". Various doctrines had to be revised as they turned out to be "incorrect". But many other religous organisations have a similar reputation.

The topic was about preaching. Preachng is a good things, whether done by LDS or JW or any other CHristian denomination. Preaching can be done in many ways, as most important is to love your neighbor. It is good to tell people about the good news of the Kingdom, of Jesus etc.

But I do agree that the WBTS by far exeggerate the effectiveness of their preaching method. The nett growth is very small and compared to population growth, it is almost negligible. Again, for me it is not the numbers but as the organisation uses numbers to prove how successful they are, it shows they are not at all successful. On average (according to published numbers in Yearbook), it takes about 13000 hours of preaching to win one new person.

Last August the organisation organised (pushed) the, as they called it, largest preaching effort ever. Well, preaching, it was more a sales campaign to promote their website. I checked around and did not find any newspaper article mentioning this campaign. It is not uncommon or the organisation to use words like: historic event, unsurpassed, amazing etc, when referring to their works. In the new proclaimers book there is something about changing the way congregations are organised. The book refers to this change as an historic event.

The actual objective of the preaching work by JW's is not to proclaim the good news of the kingdom and of the king (Jesus) but to convert them to become JW's. That is why JW's preach to people from other Christian denominations, of whom, many already are aware of the kingdom. Most people do not want to become a member of a religious organisation. They in principle can be interested to learn about the bible and the kingdom, but that is it. And even much fewer people want to become a JW. As the objective is to convert people to become JW's, many people actually do not get to hear the good news if they indicate they do not want to become a JW. From there on, the JW will no longer visit the person.

In summary, if one is interested in large numbers, join the Catholic Church, the Anglican Church or convert to Islam or Hindu.

If one is interested to learn about the bible, start reading and search for good discussion forums and, if interested, visit a congregation that is not aiming to convert you to become a member and that in essence teach bible princples.

If one want to become a member of a religious organisation, do some research first to assess the impact of such membership on your daily life. All these memberships come at a price. Yes, in general JWs live a morally clean life and are also in principle honest to their fellow JW's and people in general, which may sound appealing to to others, in particular to those who feel alone or abandoned.

40

Revelation, its Grand Climax.... remember when?

by wallsofjericho in

i remember being at the assembly in 1988?

when this was released.

everyone was so excited that we finally had a simple explanation of revelation with pictures.

menrov

Of all the hundreds of publications from the WBTS, I never read any scholar or scientist or key person ever making a reference to an article published by the WBTS......that does say something I guess

82

Gerrit Losch's "I DO NOT ANSWER TO WATCHTOWER"

by Newly Enlightened in

in gerrit losch's public statement to the superior copurt of california.

http://www.watchtower.exposed/?p=364.

documents: https://www.dropbox.com/s/49zyexvagn7ux7j/losch%20public%20statement.jpg?dl=0.

menrov

And I repeat, I did not have sexual intercourse with that woman ........

443

Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

by breakfast of champions in

this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

.

menrov

Thanks all for sharing the outcome of the visit. I read it was recorded. Where can we "pick" this recoring up?

53

Awake! to be part of Watchtower Public Edition!

by Atlantis in

this was posted on a jw site and it would be nice if we could verify.. .. .. as of february 2015, the awake!

will come as a part of the watchtower public edition instead of as a separate magazine.

this is a huge change... with serious cost savings.

menrov

http://hildeydesa.blogspot.com/2014/10/carta-30914-se-recibira-la-revista.html

Strange, the letter is dated 30 Setember 2014 but in the letter is says "starting with edition February 2014 (in Spanish: a partir de los numeros de febrero 2014).

36

I'm tired of the org misquoting scholars to support there heretical NWT

by yogosans14 in

day after day jws are constantly fighting with me over the internet that the nwt is the most accurate translation and then they prove it by quoting scholars from the watchtower magazines.

they tell me i'm biased and there rendering of john 1:1 as "a god" is approved by scholars but i have researched there so called "supporters" and i have found they have tooken what they said out of context to twist the scriptures to there liking.. .

dr. julius r. mantey (who is even recognized by the watchtower as a greek scholar since they quote his book on page 1158 of their kingdom interlinear translation): calls the watchtower translation of john 1:1 "a grossly misleading translation.

menrov

If someone wants to prove a point or doctrine, that someone will search for support and will select statements that support his point or doctrine as much as possible. All translations of the bible were done with an "agenda". The NWT or rNWT is not different. What is different, is the explanations provided by the translator regarding his choice of translations. The NWT is very selective in providing a reason why a certain verse is translated as it is. The NET translation has an explanation for about every verse, so reader at least knows why the words are translated as they are.

Did the trinity brochure contain misquotes? I guess that not all quotes were accurate, but likely just within the limits of the law.

Regarding John 1:1, if it is "a god" does this mean a god like Satan is a god or like Wealth/Money which is represented as a god? And if godly, why treat Jesus as he is a mere angel (Michael)? If one is a god, that one is more than an angel.

Further, if it is translated as "a god" then why not consistently done throughout the bible. The word Theos, presumably used here, is used over 300 times (according to biblehub / Strong). Greek also does not use comma's or punctuations, which means it is up to the translator to add them, which can be at times very arbitrary. Look for example at Romans 9:5, which also contains the word THEOS:

NWT:

To them the forefathers belong, and from them the Christ descended according to the flesh. God, who is over all, be praised forever. Amen.
The verse is by use of a period split into 2 sentences.

Check here http://biblehub.com/multi/romans/9-5.htm to see how other bibles translate this. About all of them translate it as one sentence.

48

New songs coming

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

heard from an inside source that there are 3 new songs coming to the songbook.

.

menrov

Londo111, what do you mean with this "

Maybe they want everyone to tradein their songbooks...because of the graphic artwork on the backcover...

This might be a good excuse without bringing attention to it.

What is peculiar abou the graphic on the backcover?

10

Has anybody ever co-related what Jewish scholars beleive about the Hebrew scriptures and what jehovahs Witnesses beleive ?

by smiddy in

i`m just curious as to how different they may be.. smiddy.

.

menrov

kaik, any written support on these points?

42

My Elderette returns for a final Bible Study session, after I avoided her for 2 months (very long post)

by Faithful Witness in

some of this will be repeat, since it's been a little while since i posted about my "bible study" sessions with miss k, my elderette.

we are talking about the name of jehovah.

thanks for talking with us today.

menrov

FW, the only reason why I feel "sad" the study is over is because I know have to miss your excellent wrting skills. I really enjoyed the way you presented your experience, your choice of words, never too offensive, always respectful but still to the point, with a flavour of humour.

Thanks

100

Can anyone disprove 607 BCE date using only the NWT and WT literature?

by Bart Belteshassur in

i haven't come across any arguement that does not involve secular history and external references.

in fact the wt can not get to 607 bce without using external sources as in knowing that they need to get back from 1914 ce to 607 bce, and botching an argument using an external date as reference to create their start point at 537 bce.. i realize that to get the final date we must provide a fixed figure from somewhere which can only be a historical source, but the objective would be to disprove the wt flim flam.

once that is achieve we can use which ever fixed historical point they wish to chose.

menrov

Island Man, I guess you are correct. Regardless the official doctrine one is challenging with scriptural proof, most JW's will disregard. They will say: you are wrong, you have to wait for insight, pray for more knowledge, in due course you will see etc.

Well, so be it.