money?,,,,,,, no, religion!
all the wars that i have studied have been attributed to religious beliefs who's foundation whereby being unfounded and un-provable.
trust in gawd, allah, jesus, jehovah, mohammed and on and on is what the lost say, or "the lord will provide" for that matter.
Six of nine comes through with some good points yet again. He and a previous poster said FEAR is the root of all evil. I would have to agree. From FEAR comes insecurity, which leads to close-mindedness, which leads to judging, which leads to condemnation, which leads to many other evils.
Thanks for the question!!!!!
Brad, (of the "I'm going to hug my kids and help them feel SAFE as much as I can" class.)
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i don't think i say anything more forthright than the next on here........ its just that i believe differently.. if i do upset people then i'll go.. if i don't then i'll stay.. scoob
Hey Scoob,
I have had differences of opinion with you but you don't "really" upset me, personally.
I read this interesting quote one time, "I have learned silence from the talkative, tolerance from the intolerant and kindness from the unkind. I should not be ungrateful to these teachers, also."
I think you could learn a bit from what Craig is trying to tell you as well, just as I have learned things from you. My feelings on why you act the way that you act is slightly different from Craig's but similar enough......... I would suggest that you may have "Borderline Personality Disorder", (since you seem to never really want to take responsibility for your actions, no matter how rude and offensive they have been in the past.) The JW religion itself has many traits that can be attributed to the same condition, BPD.
But, IMHO, I think you are here to teach others.......... It is just up to the others here to understand that you have "issues" and that you really don't mean to "UPSET" them.
You wouldn't have created this post if you do mean to upset people, would you? UNLESS, it is a self-serving ploy on your part to try to get support from some here and then to use that support to insult people like Valis.
But that is up to each person here to decide for themselves, right????..... You would do well to accept that people who differ with you in opinion, are entitled to keep their's without you trying to minimize it all the time.
Brad
admittedly, this thread is for believers.
is there a prayer that when you pray it, you feel that it gets answered faithfully?
for example, maybe when you?re afraid you pray for courage and you?re given it.
Steve,
Yes, I most certainly think that we can both be right. My interpretation of a higher power is only what works for me. I may just choose to look at it my way because I haven't gotten over some mental JW blocks, etc.
My main point is simply that this prayer or calling on a higher power thing always happens within our OWN minds and, for me, realizing that helps me to keep it in perspective so that I don't think I'm too "special" but also not insignificant in this world either.
Brad
once in a while (sometimes in rapid succession), very insightful (or, shall we say: willing to share their hearts) people say something that just immediately cuts right to a totally exposed nerve...no thought needed, you just know right away that it has touched a tender spot in your soul, and you instinctively flinch.. without prior permission, but with editing, i'd like to share part of this personal message:if you can remember how you felt before you went to bethel...about a true brotherhood working together towards a common cause, where one is your leader and all you are brothers...it is a dream i cannot let go of.
another person was kind enough to describe it in the words of nathaniel hawthorne (of herman melville) - "he can neither believe nor be comfortable in his disbelief and is too honest not to try to do one or the other.".
this brought tears to my eyes...oh how true!
Interesting topic.
I like jgnat's post and at the risk of sounding arrogant I feel that I fall into the "loving the cause" category. I was both blessed and cursed by the same things in life. All that has happened to me has been a curse and the very same things have been a blessing to me as well.
The only thing that changed was how I PERCEIVED THOSE THINGS TO BE!!!!! In the words of Aaron Lewis of the band Staind, "The only thing I know is that I can change. Everything else just stays the same."
I was lucky enough to have suffered complete shunning from my family, that it taught me how sad their judging really is. By surviving such a judgement I at least know that I never want to be guilty of it myself again.
Here's to everyone else here who has "survived" their unwarranted condemnation.
Brad
i saw my family this past weekend while visiting my home state for a few days.
its almost comical at this point how terrified my own siblings are of me.
like they cant even look me in the eye when they talk ....its so sad.
Flower,
It sucks that you are going through that, but believe it or not it could be worse. I think there may be hope for your family since they are actually having something to do with you.
I can't say the same for mine.... (and I feel for them a lot more than it bothers me)... but my brother moved to another house and changed his number and told my mother to not tell me where he lives. All this because in our last conversation, (1 1/2 yrs. ago), I told him that I believe that it is not the truth....... but that I still managed to learn good things from it. Since then every member of my family has refused to answer the phone even.
I would be lying if I said it doesn't hurt, but can you imagine their mindset to do those things to themselves, never mind me?
Anyway, the best thing we can do is stay away and stay happy........ those two seem to go hand in hand.
Brad
i was having a moment today when i was trying to compare how loving the jw's god (and father) is compared to me, also a father.. i'm not sure how much they still preach the "peace and security" cry and that sudden destruction is to be upon the world immediately after that.....????......
but when i was a child i thought that was the meanest and also cowardly thing that god could do.
comparing it to me as a father.... .
I was having a moment today when I was trying to compare how loving the JW's God (and Father) is compared to me, also a father.
I'm not sure how much they still preach the "Peace and Security" cry and that sudden destruction is to be upon the world immediately after that.....????...... but when I was a child I thought that was the meanest and also cowardly thing that God could do. Comparing it to me as a father.... .
My two boys are 9 and 6 and I love them to bits but they can really argue when they are in certain moods. What if I told them how I thought they should learn how to get along but they went about it another way than my advice? They devised their own plan to get along, but at least there was "peace" between them. Is that when I should send them to their room or ground them or hit them? Wouldn't I be an arrogant prick and a pretty pathetic father if I told them that they had to do it my way and since they didn't, (even though the end result was EXACTLY what I wanted) that they were now going to be severely punished?
Yet that is basically what the JW's are saying about their Jehovah. Is it possible that they have realized thhe stupidity of that sort of "logic" and have gotten away from that saying? (Honest question, since I haven't been to a meeting in 10 years and have heard very little about that past prediction that they stuck to so strongly for years.
Brad
admittedly, this thread is for believers.
is there a prayer that when you pray it, you feel that it gets answered faithfully?
for example, maybe when you?re afraid you pray for courage and you?re given it.
I'm not posting this for the purpose of disagreeing with your theory in a God that does actually answer prayers. But when I "pray" it is more for a reminder to let my subconscious mind bring back the positive thoughts that I would like my conscious mind to realize. I believe that reminding myself of these positive thoughts, especially just before bed, (when our conscious mind is at rest and cannot interfere with our subconscious) is actually why the "prayers" are answered.
Even though I don't believe that it is a separate being that makes these good things happen, I still get the same results as people who "pray".
But if people don't believe in the results happening then no matter who they are directing it towards, it will likely not work. Interesting how suggestable and yet how powerful the mind is, eh?
By the way, my favorite is the "God grant me the serenity one"....... I'm sure everyone is aware of that one.
Brad
the watchtower, june 15, 2004 issue, pages 14-24:.
" for the benefit of current readers, the answer is reprinted on pages 29-31 of this magazine.
19 near its conclusion, the reprinted answer on pages 29-31 says: "does the fact that opinions and conscientious decisions may differ mean that the issue is inconsequential?
The poor chaps!!!!!!!
Can you imagine how nerve-racking it will be for all the JW's who will have to choose what to do?
Doctor to mom and dad, "If you don't give your child this blood fraction, he will die."
Elder to mom and dad, "It's up to you, but if it stumbles eighty-five year old brother Faithful and he loses his faith, then you are guilty of sinning against God!!!!!"
Man, it sucks that they put people through that sh*t!!!!
It is typical Governing Body tactics, though. It gives them the option of choosing to kick you out or not, without any definable guidelines. (I'm sure there are other people here who feel that they were made an example of when they were df'd because they made people think a bit too much or whatever.)
Brad
hey!
shotguns post got me thinking.
post your story is 3 sentences or less, if possible.
I was born a jw....... (that already seems a trifle unfair ).....and, despite doubts from a very early age, I was baptized at 17 because of pressure to be like my 3 older pioneer siblings.
I got df'd at 22 for premarital sex ......... ....... and was lucky enough to believe that it would be hypocritical of me to PRETEND to believe by going back and getting reinstated, so I didn't.
My family and my ex's family are still devout, so my (4) children are lucky to have a daddy that patiently shows them the other side of the world, free from close-minded, delusional, holier than thou people.
Brad
now that you're out of the borg.
what do you believe that your future holds?
are you going to heaven / hell?
I think it was Einstein who said that 'energy never dies, it just changes form.' That makes sense to me, so I do believe there is another realm of existence that I/we will pass into. We have evolved as a society of people on this earth to believe that being "good" is better than being "bad", so since this must be part of our natural make-up, where we go from here must be partly based on our heart and mind condition.
If my theory on that is wrong, I still get much more enjoyment in the here and now by trying to be kind, loving, forgiving and understanding, etc. that I'll live my life pursuing those paths anyway.
It feels good that I can say that I am ALMOST 100% convinced that any potential supreme being out there is not nearly as judgemental and condemning as Christianity and lots of other faiths teach.
Brad
