Posts by outbutnotdown

61

Pastor Russell and 1914

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

1. russell did not believe that 1914 marked the "beginning of the end" as do jehovah's witnesses.

rather, he pointed to 1799 for that (i.e., see zion's watch tower for nov. 7, 1893, page 24: in commenting on the discovery of the rossetta stone he states: "[the point is that 1799 was the very year beginning the time of the end when many would run to and fro and knowledge be increased.

' dawn, vol iii, chapter ii--editor]" .

outbutnotdown

RR,

I don't know what to say, without it seeming to be rude. It is not intended to be, but I thought that most people that leave JWism stay away from other close-minded, delusional, holier than thou horsesh*t as well. Kenneson makes a good point that Russell looked back and made 1878 the year that the Bible Students use as their pivotal year. How handy is that? I could say that 2001 (World Trade Centre incidents) was the beginning of the new age.... yadda yadda yadda... I am not even going to make up any phoney stuff at the risk of others believing it, for I would feel responsible for closing peoples' minds.

What if there is no God outside of us? What if he has no plan for us? IMO, God is either so controlling that we are simply puppets of his, or that he is so intelligent that he has predicted all of history's events or that he is neither and that we create or own world, individually and collectively. For you to suggest that God came to you while you were a JW and told you to be a Bible Student, at the risk of sounding rude, is just delusional. It's like the Mormons who thought that their church was getting a little off the right path, so thay made a new religion. Instead of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints", they called themselves "The Re-Organized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints".

That's like one schizophrenic saying to another, "I'm better than you because I have more personalities than you." No offense to schizophrenics, but I think you get the point, RR.

Brad

80

Still Demonstrating/Prostesting at the KH and Support is Growing

by Corvin in

jw
friends

we laid low for a week from picketing the kingdom hall.

i wanted to see how things would go with the emergency hearing before i continued.

because of the pending restraining order sara applied for, i cannot go within 100 yards of her or her husband, mark.

outbutnotdown

Brownboy,
It is unfortunate that you had such an experience, and I feel for you. Are you trying to suggest, though that, even though Corvin said that she "happened to be hispanic" and explained the relevance to why he said that with the "Charo" scenario, that he is a racist?

I, myself, was wrongly charged because of the "zero tolerance" idea that if a wife claims that her husband has hit her, then they charge the husband, to ensure the safety of the woman. I do not think that it was fair for my now ex to do that, much like it was unfair that you were wrongly charged and that the judge didn't fix it.

However, due to the fact that many women are able to escape from "truly" abusive situations because their spouse will be taken away immediately, without being able to seek revenge while the police investigate, I still believe that "zero tolerance" is a good idea. But, I also knew enough to get away from that lying, deceitful person in order to protect myself from further lies.

My point is that you shouldn't judge society as a whole because of an unfair thing that one or two people did to you. I hope your situation gets resolved, if it hasn't been yet, but to be honest, you might be rushing to judgement a little too quickly.

B.

80

Still Demonstrating/Prostesting at the KH and Support is Growing

by Corvin in

jw
friends

we laid low for a week from picketing the kingdom hall.

i wanted to see how things would go with the emergency hearing before i continued.

because of the pending restraining order sara applied for, i cannot go within 100 yards of her or her husband, mark.

outbutnotdown

I hope that this does not add to the "race" conflict...... it is intended to help put it in perspective.

I have a friend, who I greatly admire and love, despite the fact that I think he is a little sensitive to the race issue, who HAPPENS TO BE black. In the city where I live, there is a Blackacres Street and a Whiteacres Street directly across from each other. One happens to have condos on it, while the other has houses. He is of the opinion that white people conspired to put the cheaper units on the Blackacres side and the more expensive houses on the Whiteacres side, because after all, ALL white people have always thought that they are superior to blacks.

Like I said, I love him, despite this quirk, but I do not take offense to his comments about whites. I am not a racist, so him accusing me (in his big lump of ALL white people) of being racist does not bother me. Why should it?.... I think he is a great guy. But I will not take it to heart..... I also try to avoid the topic, since he is sensitive to it, but his judgement of white people hurts only him. Any whites that do take offense to it hurt themselves.

My point is, Xandria, that (without trying to be insensitive to you), you should take a look in the mirror before you start judging Corvin. IMO, when he said she HAPPENED TO BE hispanic, I was convinced that he was not a racist.

Besides, his topic is far too important to have accusations that are unfounded, to be distracting people from the bigger point.

Corvin,

Keep up the good work, but, like others have said here, make sure you keep in mind what the Judges may think about your protesting. If it doesn't make you look irrational, then hats off to you. I am in a battle with my ex and her family, too.............. and yes, even though I try to be a peaceful person, with little conflict in my life, sometimes there are BATTLES that we have to fight..... for their importance is too great to sit passively by.

Brad

12

World's Worst Century?

by City Fan in

.

with events in iraq seemingly going from bad to worse, and with what i see as an increasing number of end-time 'prophets' posting on this board, i thought i would bring this programme to everyone's attention.

it may put today's events into perspective compared to some of histories more turbulent times.. would anyone here rather go back and live in the 14th century?.

outbutnotdown

Heathen,
Do you really believe what you said about the 21st century getting off to a bad start and that you can't perceive it getting any better?

The world, as you see it in the big picture, is the way you see your world immediately in front of you. I feel for you, my friend......... my world is a very beautiful place..... whatever happens beyond what is around me is outside of my immediate control and will not cause me to see it any worse than how I perceive it in my immediate circle of influence.

B.

106

Does Belgium Have it Right About JWs?

by ezekiel3 in

us criticises religious .

discrimination in belgium

source: expatica (belgium) http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=48&story_id=11964&name=us+criticises+religious+freedom+in+belgium.

outbutnotdown

Czar,

You make good points about certain things, but you also leave out the facts that innocent children and even people who have been abused, who are now adults, tend to not have the ability to CHOOSE to escape that religion, because of not having the self-confidence to do so. Quite often these people, who lack this self-confidence, are lacking specifically because they have known nothing other than this mind-control.

When people are in an abusive relationship, they usually don't even know it. For this reason, there are safety nets for them to escape to, no questions asked. And despite the fact that some people can actually abuse this system, and my ex-wife is one of those people..... (she has gone around accusing me of sexually assaulting my children and of abusing her in every way possible..... all of them lies), but I would be the first to still say that these "safety nets" need to be there, despite that others and myself suffer.

I have also, like Corvin, through our court system, had a Judge rule that my children are not to be raised as Jehovah's Witnesses. It is through these BIG victories, that the truth eventually comes out, but prevention is still better than this cure that Corvin and I have accomplished.

B.

106

Does Belgium Have it Right About JWs?

by ezekiel3 in

us criticises religious .

discrimination in belgium

source: expatica (belgium) http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=48&story_id=11964&name=us+criticises+religious+freedom+in+belgium.

outbutnotdown

Ezekiel3,

Awesome argument!!!!!! Very true and valid!! I DEFINITELY could not have said it any better myself.

Cheers!!!!!!

B.

76

How much harm have you caused your congregation?

by Joker10 in

jw
friends

how much harm did you cause to the people in your congregation?

everybody complains how the witnesses did this and that and in the process caused so much harm.

but what you don't say is how much pain you caused others while you were in.

outbutnotdown

Joker10,

To be honest, your denial scares me. People who sit there and accuse others, while, at the same time exonerate themselves are delusional and are not even honest with themselves.

I personally hurt my family a lot, but I think my actions, (even though I was originally df'd, my not going back was 100% MY decision) were necessary and I wouldn't change a thing about it. I have hurt a lot, and some have now opened their eyes and are now learning to free temselves from their pain that they place on themselves in that religion.

Your response, however,should not even be taken into consideration. At least others here, as Valis and others have said, showed some humility. It's a good thing.... try it sometime.

B.

106

Does Belgium Have it Right About JWs?

by ezekiel3 in

us criticises religious .

discrimination in belgium

source: expatica (belgium) http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=48&story_id=11964&name=us+criticises+religious+freedom+in+belgium.

outbutnotdown

Xena,

IMO, the worst part of living in a high-control religion or even in a high-control and judgemental family, such as if we were raised by prejudiced parents, is not being able to use our God-given (or inate) abilities to decipher what is good and bad, to speak in pretty basic terms.

In answer to your question, where we should draw the line is when a religion, for example, restricts these in-born abilities. As humans, it stunts our growth spiritually and emotionally when this happens, which in turn causes us to be the negative, close-minded people that is unhealthy for society to have around.

I have used this quote a few times before, but I will use it again, because it's a goody!!!!!!! On the back of Crisis of Conscience, when speaking about the negative effects of the JW religion, Kim Kimmons says:

"It jolts the conscience.... a warning of what can happen when an individual turns his God-given right of decision-making over to an organization."

To me, that is the entire answer............ when an organization prevents us from making decisions that are natural and healthy........ THERE'S A BIG PROBLEM!!!!!!!

B.

106

Does Belgium Have it Right About JWs?

by ezekiel3 in

us criticises religious .

discrimination in belgium

source: expatica (belgium) http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=48&story_id=11964&name=us+criticises+religious+freedom+in+belgium.

outbutnotdown

Czar,

Good points again. I went through some weird sh*t when I was younger, mostly based on the fact that my parents, who lacked in skills that enabled good emotional upbringing for their children, seemed to have this belief that they were "special" people and therefore never seemed to question, (or were never open-minded enough to realize it), the fact that they could be even better parents.

HOWEVER, much like yourself, I wouldn't change a thing about it, not because I don't have some things that make me less than perfect, but, actually because I am ecstatic that I actually realize that I can become more enlightened, and I don't get in trouble for "finding this new light" before some religious hierarchy says it's OK to follow THEIR new light.

I still stick to my point about the fact that I am not against the gov't pointing out concerns about specific religions, as long as it is done with as much objectivity as possible and with, (like you said), the best of intentions. And yes, I do know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions but the road to happiness/heaven is also. I am the youngest of four kids and I see the anger, hatred, and just emptiness in my older siblings who are all still JW's........and I say that not to insult them, but just to state a fact...............but as much as I respect their freedom of religion, I also know that I was in their shoes before and I firmly believe that they would like it better out here.

B.

106

Does Belgium Have it Right About JWs?

by ezekiel3 in

us criticises religious .

discrimination in belgium

source: expatica (belgium) http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=48&story_id=11964&name=us+criticises+religious+freedom+in+belgium.

outbutnotdown

Czar,

I respect your views on having open forums and such about religion and their respective negative consequences as well. I'm not disagreeing with you on that....... it is a great idea.

I would like to add another point, though. Little children, for example, are not able to have this freedom to the information and are therefore brought up believing that this negative mind-control is good and normal. Therefore, I believe that we should also have PREVENTATIVE measures to disallow people, especially children, from being reared in a JW type of religion.

I know, for myself personally, I continue to have to de-program myself from some of those negative thought processes that have been put there by that religion, and despite knowing that Im doing better and better, I still think I would have preferred to have a more "open-minded" upbringing.

B.